Leo + Martin Ball ：5-MeO-DMT は瞬時にゾクチェンレベルの究極の悟りをもたらす

October 14, 2025 · 185 min read

前置き

過去記事

Leo + Martin Ball ：5-MeO-DMT は瞬時にゾクチェンレベルの究極の悟りをもたらす（途中 2）

で取り上げた動画を AI で整理した。

また、タイトルにある「ゾクチェンと DMT を絡めた話題」は

DMT体験における二元性の罠と非二元（ノンデュアル）意識への道：チベット仏教ゾクチェンの視点から

として AI で整理した。末尾で、これら全体についての私の判断も述べた。

要旨

5-MeO-DMTと非二元性の探求

この音声記録の抜粋は、‌‌Martin Ball博士‌‌と‌‌Leo‌‌によるインタビューを特集しており、‌‌5-MeO-DMT‌‌という強力な幻覚剤と、それが‌‌非二元性の追求‌‌や‌‌悟り‌‌にどのように利用できるかについて議論しています。

Ball博士は、5-MeO-DMTの使用が「悟りの経験」をもたらすことは認めるものの、それは「真の解放」とは異なり、エゴの制約からの解放はより深い、継続的なプロセスであると強調しています。彼らは、この物質が‌‌従来の言葉や概念では伝えられない‌‌絶対的な意識の状態を垣間見せる‌‌最も効率的なツール‌‌であると考えています。

また、‌‌非二元的なアプローチ‌‌を取る際には、薬物使用中に‌‌エゴを手放すこと‌‌や、‌‌身体的な対称性を保つこと‌‌の重要性についても議論しており、‌‌自己開発と意識の変革‌‌のための真剣な道のりとして強調しています。

前置き
要旨
5-MeO-DMTと非二元性の探求：マーティン・ボール博士による洞察
「悟りの体験」と「真の解放」は違う：5-MeO-DMTが意識にもたらす深遠な変化
ホワイトペーパー：5-MeO-DMTを用いた非二元性の探求と自己解放への道筋
古代の非二元性とサイケデリック
1. 古代ヒンドゥー教におけるアートマンとブラフマン
2. 現代の非二元性と「真の自己」の認識
DMT体験における二元性の罠と非二元（ノンデュアル）意識への道：チベット仏教ゾクチェンの視点から
コメント
情報源
文字起こし（話者識別）

5-MeO-DMTと非二元性の探求：マーティン・ボール博士による洞察

エグゼクティブ・サマリー

この文書は、マーティン・ボール博士へのインタビューに基づき、サイケデリック物質である5-MeO-DMTが個人のスピリチュアルな発達と、エゴからの解放（悟り）を達成する上で果たす役割について詳述する。ボール博士は、5-MeO-DMTを「地球上で最も効果的なツール」と位置づける一方で、それが単純な「魔法の薬」ではないことを強調する。

中心的な論点は、「悟りの体験」と「真の解放」の明確な区別にある。5-MeO-DMTは、使用者に数秒で「ゼロから無限へ」と至る強烈な非二元的（ノンデュアル）な悟りの体験をもたらすことができる。しかし、一度の体験が恒久的な解放を意味するわけではなく、エゴの構造は体験後に再形成される傾向がある。

真の解放に至るプロセスは、この強力な体験を触媒として利用し、エゴの構造を意識的に解体していく、深く困難な自己探求の旅である。このプロセスにおいて、ボール博士は「身体的対称性」の維持という独自のアプローチを提唱する。非二元的な状態が身体の左右対称な動きと一致する一方、エゴは非対称性として現れる。体験中に意識的に対称性を保つことで、エゴによって抑圧されたエネルギーの歪みが表面化し、解放されやすくなる。この解放は、しばしば振動、叫び、涙といった身体的な浄化作用を伴う。

最終的なゴールは、エゴを牢獄としてではなく、必要に応じて着脱できる「衣服」のように扱えるようになることである。これにより、個人は自己をエゴの作り出したキャラクターと同一視するのをやめ、万物に通底する普遍的で非二元的な自己（神、無限の意識）として存在できるようになる。このプロセスはショートカットではなく、自己のあらゆる側面と向き合う、加速された自己変革の道である。

序論：5-MeO-DMTと悟りの可能性

宗教学の博士号を持つマーティン・ボール氏は、サイケデリック物質、特に5-MeO-DMTがスピリチュアルな探求、すなわち非二元性（ノンデュアリティ）の理解と悟りの達成にどのように貢献できるかについて、長年の経験と深い洞察を持つ専門家である。インタビューの核心は、「5-MeO-DMTは悟りを得るために実際に使えるのか」という問いから始まる。

ボール博士の答えは明確でありながら、重要な注釈が付く。「短い答えは、イエス、絶対的に」としながらも、彼は以下の二つを厳格に区別する必要性を強調する。

悟りの体験（Enlightenment Experience）：5-MeO-DMTのような強力な物質によって引き起こされる、一時的な非二元的意識状態への没入。これは、自己と他者、主体と客体の区別が消え、すべてが無限の自己の本質として認識される体験である。
真の解放（Actual Liberation）：エゴの幻想的な性質の束縛からの恒久的な自由であり、自己の真の性質に対する明確な認識が確立された状態。これは一度の体験で得られるものではなく、エゴを解体していく継続的なプロセスを経て達成される。

ボール博士によれば、5-MeO-DMTは「悟りの体験」を誰にでも提供しうる地球上で最も強力な物質であるが、それが自動的に「真の解放」につながるわけではない。しかし、その体験は既成概念を打ち砕き、自己分析を促す強力な触媒となり、解放への道を歩む者にとって最も効果的なツールとなり得る。

5-MeO-DMT体験の性質

5-MeO-DMTによって誘発される体験は、他のいかなるサイケデリック体験とも一線を画す特異な性質を持つ。

即時的かつ絶対的な非二元性

5-MeO-DMTを喫煙または気化摂取すると、数秒という極めて短い時間で、通常の現実認識を「ゼロ」とするなら、「ゼロから無限へ」と移行する。エゴがそのプロセスに抵抗せず、身を委ねることができれば、一呼吸のうちに完全な非二元的意識状態へと突入する。

主体と客体の消滅：そこには「見る者」も「見られる対象」も存在せず、ただ純粋な「存在の性質」だけがある。
無限との一体化：すべてが無限の自己の本質として認識される。
体験者の反応：この体験から戻ってきた人々が口にする最も一般的な言葉は、「オー・マイ・ゴッド」「なんてこった（Holy shit）」「ワオ」といった、畏敬と驚嘆の表現である。これは、何十年も瞑想を続けてきた探求者や、アヤワスカのような他の強力なサイケデリックを経験した者でさえも同様である。

言語と概念の超越

この体験の核心は、言語や概念では捉えきれない点にある。

言語の二元性：言語は、話し手と聞き手、自己と他者という二元的な前提の上に成り立っているため、非二元的な実在を表現するには本質的に不十分である。
概念と実体験の乖離：「無限」という言葉を知っていても、実際に「無限であること」を体験すると、それがどんな言葉や概念にも収まらないことが即座に理解される。それは記述不可能でありながら、直接体験することは可能である。

「神」の直接体験

多くの体験者が、この体験を「神」との遭遇として語る。

普遍的意識としての神：ここでいう「神」とは、西洋文化における超越的な創造主といった二元論的な存在ではない。それは、すべての存在、すべての物事である一つの普遍的な意識であり、現実そのものである。
内在する神：神は現実の外部にいるのではなく、現実が神自身を体験している状態である。この意識は、私たち一人ひとりの人間という乗り物を通して生きており、意識的で、覚醒し、生きている。
認識の感覚：体験者たちは、それが宗教的な信念からではなく、直接的な認識として「これこそが神だ」と感じる。ボール博士自身も、長年禅仏教に親しんできたにもかかわらず、体験時に自然と口から出た言葉は「ありがとう、神様」であった。

他のサイケデリックとの比較

5-MeO-DMTの特異性を理解するためには、他のサイケデリック、特に一般的に「DMT」として知られるNN-DMTとの比較が不可欠である。

5-MeO-DMT vs. NN-DMT

特徴	5-MeO-DMT	NN-DMT（通称DMT）
体験の性質	非二元的、非視覚的、エゴの溶解	非常に視覚的、異次元的、幻想的
主体-客体関係	主体と客体の区別が完全に消滅する	「見る自己」と「見られる対象（機械じかけのエルフなど）」という二元性が維持されやすい
効果	自己の真の性質（無限の意識）との合一	代替宇宙や異星人との遭遇といったヴィジョンが主
力価	NN-DMTを「塵の中に置き去りにする」ほど強力	非常に強力だが、5-MeO-DMTには及ばない
文化的認知度	低く、専門家以外にはほとんど知られていない	テレンス・マッケナやリック・ストラスマンの研究により広く知られている

ボール博士は、「NN-DMT体験の99%は二元的な側面で起こる」と指摘する。ヴィジョンが優勢である限り、そこには観察する主体と観察される客体が存在し、非二元性の完全な実現は妨げられる。

作用機序の特異性

この違いは、神経化学的な作用機序に起因する可能性がある。

神経伝達物質としての性質：5-MeO-DMTとNN-DMTは、哺乳類の体内で自然に生成されるトリプタミンであり、血液脳関門を容易に通過できるため、即効性がある。
エゴへの直接的アプローチ：トーマス・レイ博士の研究によると、他の多くのサイケデリックが脳の広範な受容体を活性化させるのに対し、5-MeO-DMTはほぼ排他的に、個人の自我意識に最も密接に関連する特定の受容体に作用する。
エゴの圧倒：この特異な作用により、5-MeO-DMTはエゴを直接的に、そして完全に圧倒する能力を持つ。これにより、他のサイケデリックでは起こりにくい、純粋な非二元的意識状態への移行が促進される。

解放へのプロセス：エゴの解体

5-MeO-DMTがもたらす悟りの体験は、解放へのプロセスの始まりに過ぎない。真の解放は、その体験を指針として、エゴという複雑な構造を意識的に解体していく作業を通じて達成される。

魔法の薬ではない

このプロセスは、決して容易な道ではない。

加速された自己探求：これはショートカットではなく、自己のあらゆる隠された側面（トラウマ、信念、感情）と向き合うことを余儀なくされる、極めて挑戦的で加速されたプロセスである。ボール博士はこれを「自分自身を繰り返し出産するようなもの」と表現する。
真実へのコミットメント：プロセスを歩むには、「真実を知りたい」という妥協のない欲求（仏教でいう菩提心）が不可欠である。自分自身に嘘をつかず、心地よい信念に安住せず、直接的な真実を求める姿勢が求められる。

エゴの構造

ボール博士は、エゴを単一のものではなく、「エネルギーのパターンの集合体」として定義する。

学習されたパターン：幼少期から社会や文化に適応する過程で、私たちは自己の自然なエネルギーの流れを検閲し、特定の行動様式（思考、感情、身体の使い方）を「自分」として採用する。
キャラクターとしてのエゴ：これらのパターンの集合体が、私たちが演じているペルソナ、すなわち「キャラクター」を形成する。私たちはこのキャラクターを自分自身であると信じ込んでいるが、それは幻想に過ぎない。

身体的対称性の役割

エゴを解体する具体的な実践方法として、ボール博士は「身体の対称性」への注意を挙げる。

非二元性の現れ：完全にエネルギー的に開かれた非二元的な意識状態では、身体は常に左右対称の動きを自発的に示す。
エゴの現れ：エゴが介入すると、身体は非対称な動き（足を組む、片側に傾くなど）を示す。
実践：「対称性の中で休む」ことを意識する。サイケデリック体験中に身体が非対称になったことに気づいたら、意図的に対称な姿勢に戻る。これにより、特定の非対称な姿勢に結びついたエゴのパターン（エネルギーの歪み）が表面化し、解放される機会が生まれる。

エネルギーの解放と浄化

エゴのパターンを解放する過程は、しばしば強烈な身体的・感情的な浄化（パージ）を伴う。

蓄積されたエネルギー：エゴは恐怖、自己防衛、抑圧といった感情に関連するエネルギーを身体、特に腹部に溜め込んでいる。
解放の現れ：5-MeO-DMTの強力なエネルギーがこれらのブロックを解放すると、振動、震え、叫び、笑い、涙、嘔吐、さらには失禁といった形で現れることがある。これは、物質そのものが排出されているのではなく、長年閉じ込められてきたエネルギーが解放されている証拠である。

サイケデリック使用における非二元的アプローチ

ボール博士が提唱するのは、サイケデリック・コミュニティの中でもまだ稀な「非二元的アプローチ」である。これは、レクリエーション、心理療法、シャーマニズムといった他のアプローチとは目的が異なる。

目的：ヴィジョンを見たり、霊的存在と交流したり、トラウマを癒したりすることではなく、自己と他者の区別そのものを解消し、根源的な非二元的な実在を悟ること。
古代のルーツ：このアプローチは新しいものではなく、古代インドのヴェーダ文献に見られる「ソーマ」の使用など、古い伝統にその起源を見出すことができる。

このアプローチにおける核心的な実践が、「何もしない（Do Nothing）」ことである。

エゴの活動：エゴは常に何かをしようとする「慢性的なおせっかい屋（chronic busybody）」である。儀式、祈り、分析、問題解決など、あらゆる「行動」はエゴの働きである。
実践方法：サイケデリック体験中、何かを達成しようとしたり、物語を作ったり、身体を意図的に動かしたりすることをやめる。ただ、中立的な状態で休み、起こるがままに任せる。
結果：エゴの「行動」を完全に手放したとき、身体は自発的に動き始め、言葉が自然に発せられるなど、真の自己のエネルギーが表現され始める。これは、道教における「無為（wu-wei）」、すなわち「何もしないことによってすべてを成し遂げる」という概念と通底する。

結論：解放された状態

エゴを解体するプロセスを最後までやり遂げた先にあるのは、どのような状態なのか。ボール博士は自身の経験を通して、その境地を語る。

エゴは牢獄から衣服へ：解放された状態とは、エゴが完全になくなることではない。むしろ、エゴが自分を閉じ込める「牢獄」ではなく、社会的状況に応じて自由に身につけたり脱いだりできる「衣服」のようになる。
流動的な自己：個人としての自己（マーティンというキャラクター）と、普遍的な自己（神）との境界線が曖昧で流動的になる。キャラクターを演じることに問題はないが、もはやそのキャラクターと自己を同一視することはない。
在ることの目的：真の自己は普遍的な自己であり、それはすべての人にとって同じである。したがって、「自分の人生の目的」といった個人的な使命を探し求めることは、エゴの探求に過ぎない。普遍的意識の唯一の目的は「ただ在る（to be）」ことであり、それ以外の目的は存在しない。

最終的に、5-MeO-DMTを触媒とした非二元性の探求は、自己の精神的な牢獄から自由になり、あらゆる瞬間に「ただ在る」ことを学び、その平和と明晰さの中で生きることを可能にする。それは、自分自身に誠実であること、すなわち、私たちすべてがその一部である普遍的意識に対して誠実であることを意味する。

「悟りの体験」と「真の解放」は違う：5-MeO-DMTが意識にもたらす深遠な変化

導入：究極の幻覚剤と「悟り」をめぐる問い

精神科学の専門家であるマーティン・ボール博士が「地球上で最も強力な幻覚物質」と表現する、5-MeO-DMT。現代の「サイケデリック・ルネサンス」とも呼ばれる潮流の中で、その名はまだ一部の探求者にしか知られていないかもしれません。しかし、この物質は単なる娯楽のためのドラッグではなく、古来から人々が追い求めてきた「悟り」や「解放」、すなわち非二元的な意識状態への扉を開く可能性を秘めた、深遠な精神的探求の道具として注目され始めています。

では、この究極とも言える物質は、本当に私たちを真の悟りへと導いてくれるのでしょうか？一度の強烈な体験は、人生を変えるほどの永続的な変化をもたらすのでしょうか？

この記事では、幻覚剤やスピリチュアルな概念に馴染みのない方々に向けて、専門家の対談に基づき、5-MeO-DMTがもたらす‌‌「悟りの『体験』」と、そこから至る「真の『解放』」‌‌という、似て非なる二つの状態の違いを、平易な言葉で解き明かしていきます。

1. 5-MeO-DMTとは何か？ — 「もう一つのDMT」との決定的違い

5-MeO-DMT（5-メトキシジメチルトリプタミン）とは、私たちの脳内で自然に生成される神経伝達物質の基本的な構成要素である「トリプタミン」の一種です。この分子の特筆すべき点は、血液脳関門（脳を保護するバリア）を瞬時に通過できるという、極めて稀な性質を持っていることです。

多くの人が「DMT」と聞くと、より一般的に知られているNN-DMTを思い浮かべますが、ボール博士の分析によれば、この二つは体験の性質が全く異なります。この違いを理解することは、5-MeO-DMTがなぜ「非二元性」の探求に特に適しているのかを知る上で非常に重要です。

特徴	NN-DMT (一般的なDMT)	5-MeO-DMT
体験の性質	極めて視覚的。超高解像度の異次元、エイリアン、幾何学模様などを見る「幻視」が中心。主体と客体の分離が残る観察の体験。	意識的・感覚的。視覚的な要素は少なく、思考が明晰なまま、純粋な意識や存在そのものを直接「感じる」。理性を超えた、否定しがたい‌‌「真実の感覚」‌‌の体験。
自我への作用	自我（自分という感覚）は残りやすい。何かを「見ている自分」という構図が保たれることが多い。	自我を完全に圧倒する。自我や個別意識に関連する脳の受容体にほぼ限定的に作用し、自我の感覚を一時的に消し去る力を持つ。
二元性との関係	体験の99%は二元的。「見る主体（自分）」と「見られる客体（幻視）」の分離が残る。	非二元的な状態へ直接移行させる。「主体も客体もない」純粋な一体感を体験させるのに非常に適している。

ボール博士が説明するように、他の多くの幻覚剤が脳の様々な受容体を広範に活性化させるのに対し、5-MeO-DMTは自我や個別意識を司る特定の受容体に集中的に作用するというユニークな特徴があります。これにより、自我の働きを根本から圧倒し、非二元的な意識状態へと導くことができるのです。

では、この強力な物質は具体的にどのような「体験」をもたらすのでしょうか？

2. 瞬間の「悟りの体験」— 無限を垣間見る10分間のプレビュー

5-MeO-DMTがもたらす「悟りの体験」は、まさに衝撃的です。ボール博士はそれを「数秒でゼロから無限へ移行する」と表現します。自我が抵抗せずに身を委ねることができれば、体験者は一呼吸のうちに、主観も客観もなく、ただ純粋な存在の性質だけがある、完全な無限の非二元的意識状態へと突入します。

この体験は、既存の現実認識を根底から覆すほどの衝撃をもたらします。多くの体験者が自我の意識に戻ってきた瞬間に抱くのは、単なる納得感ではありません。それは「ああ、神よ、これだったのか！」という、雷に打たれたような、決して疑うことのできない絶対的な確信です。長年追い求めてきた「悟り」や「真実」、あるいは宗教的でない人ですら「神」としか呼びようのない何かが、まさにこの状態であったことを、議論の余地なく直感的に理解するのです。

しかし、ボール博士はこの強烈な体験がゴールではないと明確に指摘します。その理由は主に2つあります。

一時的な状態であること
- 体験が終わると、自我の構造は再び形成され始め、多かれ少なかれ元の状態に戻ってしまいます。それは、まるで強烈な夢から覚めるようなものです。
あくまでプレビューであること
- インタビュアーのレオ氏が言うように、この体験は「無限の絶対的な状態の10分間のプレビュー」のようなものです。映画の予告編が本編そのものではないように、この体験もまた、真の解放への入り口に過ぎません。

この強烈なプレビュー体験と、永続的な「解放」との間には、どのような違いがあるのでしょうか？

3. 「真の解放」への長い道のり — 体験とプロセスの違い

ボール博士は、「真の解放」を次のように定義しています。

「自我の幻想的な性質の束縛からの自由、そして自己の真の性質の明確な認識」

ここでの重要なポイントは、「悟りの体験」が単発のイベントであるのに対し、「真の解放」はプロセスの結果であるという点です。一度や二度の強烈な体験をしたからといって、自動的に解放に至るわけではありません。むしろ、それは自我という複雑な構造を一つひとつ解きほぐしていく、長く地道な作業の始まりなのです。

このプロセスを理解するために、まずボール博士が説明する「自我」の正体を掴むことが不可欠です。

自我とは、第一に‌‌「学習されたエネルギーパターンの集合体」‌‌です。私たちは幼少期から社会に適応する中で、「こうあるべきだ」という思考、感情、行動のパターンを無意識に学習し、身につけてきました。これらのパターンは、私たちの本来の自然なエネルギーの流れを制限し、歪めています。

そして、この無数のエネルギーパターンが積み重なった結果として生まれるのが、第二の比喩である‌‌「私たちが演じている登場人物（キャラクター）」‌‌です。私たちは人生という舞台で、特定の性格、信念、役割を持った「キャラクター」を無意識に演じ続けています。しかし、俳優が役そのものではないように、私たちはこのキャラクターそのものではありません。真の解放とは、この演じているキャラクターが幻想であることに気づき、その縛りから自由になるプロセスなのです。

では、自我というキャラクターから自由になるための具体的なプロセスとは、一体どのようなものなのでしょうか？

4. 解放へのプロセス：自我という「牢獄」から抜け出す方法

まず強調すべきは、このプロセスに「魔法の薬」や「安易な近道」は存在しないということです。ボール博士は、このプロセスの困難さ、激しさ、そして奥深さを‌‌「自分自身を繰り返し出産するようなもの」‌‌という強烈な比喩で表現しています。それは、自分自身の内側に隠された痛み、恐怖、嘘と正面から向き合い、それらを解放していく、壮絶ながらも創造的な作業です。この道は、感情的な激動や、時に「自分は救世主だ」といった誇大妄想に陥る危険さえ伴う、英雄的で、時に恐ろしい自己解体の旅なのです。

この解放プロセスの核心的な実践方法として、ボール博士は自身の長年の探求の中から、解放へのプロセスを具体的実践に落とし込むための、極めて重要な洞察を発見しました。それは‌‌「身体の対称性」‌‌という概念です。

完全な左右対称
- エネルギー的に完全に開かれた非二元的な意識状態にあるとき、身体は自然と左右対称のポーズをとります。両腕が同じように開かれたり、両手が胸の前で合わさったりするなど、身体の中心線を決して越えません。
非対称な身体
- 一方、自我のパターンが働き始め、体験に抵抗しているとき、身体は非対称になります。腕を組んだり、足を組んだり、片方だけが緊張したりするなど、左右のバランスが崩れます。これは、自我が作り出したエネルギーの歪みや滞りを身体的に示しています。

この洞察に基づいた具体的なワークとは、5-MeO-DMTの体験中に、意識的に‌‌「対称性の中に留まる」‌‌ことです。非対称になろうとする身体の動きに気づき、静かに対称な状態に戻る。このシンプルな実践を繰り返すことで、自我が長年抑圧してきたエネルギー（恐怖、悲しみ、怒りなど）が表面化し、解放されるのが促されます。

このプロセスの最終的なゴールは、自我を破壊することではありません。ボール博士はそれを秀逸な比喩で描写しています。それは、自我がもはや自分を閉じ込める‌‌「牢獄」ではなく、必要に応じて着脱できる「衣服」‌‌のようになる状態です。解放とは、自我というキャラクターを社会生活で他者と関わる際には意識的に身につけ、必要がなくなればすぐにそれを脱ぎ捨てて、無限の本来の自己へと帰ることができるようになること。その移行が、かつてのような断絶的な「ジャンプ」ではなく、流れるようにスムーズになり、自我に囚われることがなくなったとき、真の解放が訪れるのです。

結論：人生を変えるための「道具」として

この記事の要点をまとめます。 5-MeO-DMTは、非二元性の状態、すなわち「悟りの体験」を垣間見せるための強力なきっかけとなり得ます。しかし、それ自体がゴールではありません。真の解放とは、その体験を手がかりに、自我という複雑な構造を意識的に解体していく、長く困難なプロセスを必要とします。

結論として、5-MeO-DMTは「大変な作業をスキップするための近道」ではなく、「通常はアクセスできない深い自己変容の作業を可能にするための、非常に効率的な道具」であると位置づけるべきです。

この探求は、私たちに根源的な問いを投げかけます。あなたは、ただ真実を「体験する」だけで満足しますか？それとも、真実として「在る」ことを選びますか？その答えは、あなた自身の内なる旅の先に待っています。

ホワイトペーパー：5-MeO-DMTを用いた非二元性の探求と自己解放への道筋

1.0 序論：意識変容の究極的ツールとしての5-MeO-DMT

1.1 戦略的背景：現代意識探求における5-MeO-DMTの台頭

現代のスピリチュアルな探求や自己啓発の分野において、5-MeO-DMTはその戦略的重要性を急速に高めています。この強力なエンセオジェン（神聖な意識を内的に生成する物質）が提供する深遠な非二元的意識状態は、長年の瞑想や伝統的な精神修行とは根本的に異なる、加速された自己変容の可能性を提示します。それは、自己と現実の性質に関する根源的な問いに対し、概念的理解ではなく直接的な体験知を通じて答えを導き出す、意識研究の最前線に位置づけられるツールです。

1.2 「ゼロから無限へ」：5-MeO-DMT体験の性質

マーティン・ボール博士が指摘するように、5-MeO-DMTは「地球上で最も強力なサイケデリック物質」と形容されます。その体験は、即時性と強烈さにおいて他に類を見ません。気化吸引によって摂取した場合、体験者は文字通り数秒のうちに、通常の分離した自己認識である「ゼロ」の状態から、すべてが一体である「無限」の意識状態へと移行します。この急激な変容は、個人のエゴ構造を根底から揺さぶり、意識のパラダイムを劇的にシフトさせる潜在力を有しています。

1.3 本書の目的

このホワイトペーパーは、5-MeO-DMTがもたらす一時的な神秘体験の現象論的分析に留まるものではありません。本書は、マーティン・ボール博士が提唱するフレームワークの体系的分析を行い、この強力なエンセオジェン体験が、いかにして「悟り」や「解放」といった恒久的な心理的・霊的解放を達成するために活用され得るのか、そのプロセスを解体することを目的とします。

1.4 探求の基盤となる区別

この分析を進める上で、解放を理解するための最も重要な鍵は、一過性の「悟りの体験」と、永続的な状態である「真の解放」とを明確に区別することです。次のセクションでは、この二つの概念の定義と本質的な違いについて詳細に論じ、多くの探求者が陥る認識論的エラーを明らかにします。

2.0 最も重要な区別：「悟りの体験」と「真の解放」

2.1 「体験」と「状態」の混同：探求における認識論的エラー

自己変容の探求における根本的な認識論的エラーの一つは、強烈で一時的な「体験（Experience）」を、永続的で安定した存在の「状態（State）」と混同することです。この区別を厳密に理解することは、5-MeO-DMTのような強力なツールを誤用や自己欺瞞に陥ることなく、真の解放へと効果的に活用するための絶対的な基盤となります。

2.2 「悟りの体験（Enlightenment Experience）」の定義と特徴

「悟りの体験」とは、深遠でありながらも本質的に一時的な現象です。その特徴は以下のように要約できます。

定義: 主体（自己）と客体（他者や世界）の区別が完全に消滅し、すべてが自己の無限の性質として認識される、完全な非二元的意識状態への一時的な没入を指します。
体験者の反応: この状態から日常意識に回帰した際、多くの体験者は「ああ、これだったんだ」「悟りとはこのことだった」という強烈な確信と感動を抱きます。それは、探し求めていた真実そのものに触れたという、疑いようのない感覚です。
限界: 体験の強烈さにもかかわらず、その効果は永続的ではありません。体験後、エゴの構造は再び形成され、個人はある程度、元の自己認識の状態に戻ってしまいます。ただし、この体験は既存の信念体系を根底から揺るがすほどのパラダイムシフトを引き起こす可能性を秘めており、それ自体が非常に価値のあるものです。

2.3 「真の解放（Actual Liberation）」の定義と本質

「悟りの体験」と対照的に、「真の解放」は瞬間的なピーク体験ではなく、持続的な存在の状態を指します。

定義: 幻想的なエゴの性質とその束縛からの完全な自由であり、自己の真の性質（普遍的意識）に対する明確な気づきが、日常生活の中で安定して持続する状態です。
達成プロセス: これは一度や数度の「悟りの体験」によって自動的に達成されるものではありません。むしろ、体験を通じて得た洞察を基に、エゴを解きほぐし（unwind）、その構造を解体（deconstruct）し、個人の中に作られた抵抗や抑圧の箇所を荷解きしていく（unpack）、困難な「プロセス」の結果として得られます。
ツールの役割: この重要な区別を理解した上でこそ、5-MeO-DMTは真価を発揮します。マーティン・ボール博士は、この物質が自己の真の性質を発見し、エゴという牢獄から自らを解放するための「地球上で最も効果的なツール」となり得ると主張しています。

この二つの概念、すなわち「体験」と「状態」を区別することは、解放プロセスにおけるエゴの役割を正しく理解するための鍵となります。次のセクションでは、この解放を阻む壁としてのエゴの構造と機能について、さらに深く掘り下げていきます。

3.0 解放を阻む壁：エゴの構造と機能

3.1 エゴの理解：敵ではなく、分析対象として

真の解放に至るプロセスにおいて、エゴの構造と機能を理解することは核心的な課題です。多くのスピリチュアルな教えではエゴが「敵」として描かれがちですが、より建設的なアプローチは、エゴを根絶すべき対象としてではなく、その機能と起源を理解し、最終的に超越すべき対象として分析することです。エゴは、我々が解放の過程で向き合い、そのパターンを解き明かすべき最も重要な構造体なのです。

3.2 エゴの再定義：固定された実体ではなく、学習されたエネルギーパターンの集合体として

マーティン・ボール博士は、エゴをユニークな視点から定義しています。彼によれば、エゴとは「単一の固定された存在」ではありません。むしろ、‌‌「幼少期に学習された、社会的に許容される自己表現のためのエネルギーパターンの集合体」‌‌です。人間は成長の過程で、自らの自然なエネルギーの流れを常に検閲・編集する方法を学びます。他者から受け入れられ、社会で機能するために、我々は特定の振る舞いを強化し、他の自然な衝動を抑圧します。この長年にわたる編集作業の積み重ねが、我々が「自分」と認識するエゴの構造を形成するのです。

3.3 エゴが二元性を維持するメカニズム

エゴは、主に以下の二つのメカニズムを通じて、二元的な現実認識（自己 vs 世界）を維持し続けています。

エネルギーの非対称性（Energetic Asymmetry）: ボール博士の観察によれば、エゴが機能している状態では、身体の動きは左右非対称になる傾向があります。例えば、右にある対象物を取るためには、主体（自己）と客体（対象物）を区別し、非対称的な動きをする必要があります。これは、二元的な世界で相互作用するための自然な機能です。逆に、完全な非二元的意識状態では、身体は自然と左右対称の姿勢をとる傾向が見られます。
自己構築された物語（Self-Constructed Narrative）: エゴは、自分自身、他者、そして世界についての一貫した物語（キャラクター）を作り上げ、その物語を維持するために現実を常に解釈し続けます。このメカニズムには、自分自身のキャラクターを支えるために、他者に特定の役割（キャラクター）を割り当てるという側面も含まれます。このプロセスを通じて、人々は自らが無意識に演じているキャラクターと自己を完全に同一視してしまうのです。

3.4 エゴのパターンを圧倒する「エネルギー・ショック療法」

5-MeO-DMTの体験がなぜこれほどまでに強力なのか。それは、この物質がもたらす圧倒的なエネルギーが、前述したエゴの限定的なエネルギーパターンを一時的に完全に無力化するからです。ボール博士はこの現象を‌‌「エゴのためのエネルギー・ショック療法」‌‌と表現しています。この「ショック療法」こそが、セクション2で述べた一時的な「悟りの体験」を可能にするメカニズムです。エゴが維持してきた検閲システムや物語は、無限のエネルギーの奔流の前では維持不可能となり、結果としてエゴの構造が一時的に崩壊し、非二元的な真実が姿を現すのです。

エゴの構造とその機能を理解した上で、次章では、この強力な体験を一過性のものに終わらせず、エゴのパターンを具体的に解体し、真の解放へとつなげるための実践的なフレームワークを提示します。

4.0 解放への実践的フレームワーク

4.1 理論から実践へ：変容を定着させる技術

5-MeO-DMTがもたらす深遠な洞察を、一過性の体験から恒久的な「真の解放」へとつなげるためには、理論的な理解だけでは不十分です。そこには、意識的な取り組みと、エゴの構造を解体するための具体的な技術が不可欠となります。本セクションでは、そのための実践的な4段階のフレームワークを提示します。

4.2 ステップ1：前提条件 - 意図と降伏

変容のプロセスを開始する前に、まず整えるべき内的な姿勢があります。

意図（Bodhichitta）: 解放への旅は、「何が真実なのかを、いかなる妥協もなく知りたい」という純粋で強烈な願望から始まります。これは仏教で言うところの「菩提心（Bodhichitta）」に相当し、すべての探求の原動力となるものです。快適な信念や自己満足に留まるのではなく、真実そのものへの完全なコミットメントが求められます。
降伏（Surrender）: 5-MeO-DMTの体験が深まると、エゴはしばしば「死」の恐怖に直面します。この決定的な瞬間に、抵抗せずにすべてを完全に手放す（let go）準備ができているかどうかが、体験の質を根本的に決定づけます。この完全な降伏の選択こそが、エゴの支配を一時的に解き、無限の意識への扉を開く鍵となります。

4.3 ステップ2：中核的実践 - 身体的対称性と「何もしない」こと

体験中およびその後の統合プロセスにおいて、以下の二つの中核的な実践が極めて重要です。

対称性への回帰: 非二元的な意識状態は、身体の‌‌「左右対称性（bilateral symmetry）」‌‌と深く相関しています。実践者は、意識的にこの対称的な状態に留まることを試みます。エゴが再浮上し、身体が非対称な動きを示し始めた時、その事実にただ気づき（become aware）、自己を責めることなく、穏やかに対称性へと戻ることが、エゴの根深いパターンを表面化させ、解放するための極めて強力な技術となります。
「何もしない」の実践（Do Nothing）: 思考、感情、身体的行動のすべてにおいて、何かを達成しようとしたり、体験に意味づけ（物語作り）をしたりすることを意図的にやめ、ただ「在る」状態に留まることを実践します。これは道教における‌‌「無為（wu-wei）」‌‌の概念に近く、エゴの絶え間ない活動を静めることで、本来の自然なエネルギーが妨げられることなく表現されるようになります。

4.4 ステップ3：浄化のプロセス - 蓄積されたエネルギーの解放

エゴのパターンが緩むと、身体が長年にわたって抑圧し、閉じ込めてきたエネルギー（恐れ、悲しみ、怒りなど）が解放され始めます。このプロセスは、しばしば身体の激しい振動、意図しない叫びや笑い、嗚咽、あるいは嘔吐といった‌‌「浄化（purging）」‌‌現象として現れます。これらは不快な体験かもしれませんが、自己を再誕生させ、よりクリアなエネルギー状態へと移行するための、困難だが不可欠な過程です。

4.5 ステップ4：最終的な統合

真の解放とは、エゴの完全な消滅を意味するわけではありません。むしろ、エゴが‌‌「牢獄」から、必要に応じて着脱できる「衣服」のようなツールへと変容する‌‌ことを意味します。この最終的な状態とは、単にエゴを道具として使うこと以上に、自己を特定のキャラクターと同一視するのをやめ、「この一つの普遍的意識が、何十億ものキャラクターを同時に演じている」という揺るぎない認識が持続することです。もはや主人ではなくなったエゴは、普遍的意識がこの世界で機能するためのインターフェースとして奉仕します。

これまで述べてきた実践的アプローチがなぜ効果的なのか、その理由を深く理解するためには、5-MeO-DMTという物質そのものが持つ特異な性質を解き明かす必要があります。次章では、その点について詳しく分析します。

5.0 なぜ5-MeO-DMTなのか？その特異性と体験の性質

5.1 非二元性の探求における特異な位置づけ

数あるサイケデリック物質の中で、なぜ5-MeO-DMTが非二元性の探求においてこれほど特別な位置を占めるのでしょうか。その理由は、神経学的な作用機序と、それがもたらす体験の質的な違いにあります。他の多くのサイケデリック物質が感覚的な幻覚や思考の変容を主にもたらすのに対し、5-MeO-DMTはより直接的に「自己」の認識そのものに作用します。

5.2 5-MeO-DMT vs NN-DMT：決定的な違い

一般的に「DMT」として知られるNN-DMTと5-MeO-DMTは、名称は似ていますが、その作用と体験は根本的に異なります。以下の表は、その決定的な違いをまとめたものです。

特徴	5-MeO-DMT	NN-DMT (一般的なDMT)
主な作用	エゴと個体意識に最も関連する特定の受容体に直接作用し、それを圧倒することで非二元的な意識状態を誘発する。	脳の視覚処理中枢を強力に活性化させ、極めて鮮明な幻覚（ヴィジョン）を生み出す。
体験の性質	「見る」ことよりも「感じる」ことや「認識する」ことが中心。ヴィジョンは少ないか、存在しない。直接的な意識のポータルが開く感覚。	主体（観察者）と客体（ヴィジョン）の二元性が維持されやすい。異世界やエイリアンとの遭遇といった報告が多い。
非二元性への適合性	非二元的な気づきを得るのに理想的。エゴを直接的にターゲットにするため、回り道が少ない。	ヴィジョンが主体となるため、非二元的な気づきに至ることは稀。ほとんどの体験は二元性の範囲内に留まる。

5.3 「神」との遭遇：内在する普遍的意識としての認識

5-MeO-DMTがもたらす「神」や「真実」の体験は、西洋文化で一般的にイメージされるような、人格を持ち、世界を超越した「創造主」とは全く異なります。むしろそれは、‌‌万物に内在し、すべての存在を通じて自己を体験している、一つの普遍的で意識的な存在（Reality itself）‌‌としての直接的な認識です。この体験において、「神」は外部に存在する権威ではなく、自己と世界の最も根源的な本質そのものであることが明らかになります。

ボール博士は、自身の禅仏教の背景からこの用語を選択した理由を説明しています。仏教の教えでは純粋意識が「空（empty）」と表現されることが多いのに対し、5-MeO-DMTの体験は、それが間違いなく「意識的で、気づきがあり、生きている（conscious and aware, and that it is living）」ものであることを示しました。この体験的な質感が、「仏心」のような抽象的な概念よりも「神」という言葉を、人格神の概念を排した上で、より適切たらしめているのです。

5.4 信念を超えた直接的な「真実」の認識

この体験の最も重要な側面は、それが「信念（Belief）」の領域ではなく、直接的な「認識（Truth）」の領域に属するということです。体験した者にとって、それは議論や証明を必要としない、内的な感覚として明白に「真実」であると感じられます。それは「すべては一つであると信じる」ことと、「すべてが一つであることを知る」ことの間の、越えがたい隔たりを埋める体験です。この直接的な認識こそが、エゴが構築した信念体系を打ち砕く力となるのです。

このように、5-MeO-DMTはその特異な作用機序により、他の手段では到達が困難な、純粋な非二元的意識への直接的なアクセスを可能にします。しかし、この強力なツールの使用には相応の責任が伴います。最終セクションでは、この探求の道筋における注意点と、5-MeO-DMTの正しい位置づけについて考察します。

6.0 結論：加速された変容の道筋であり、安易な近道ではない

6.1 ツールとしての可能性と責任

本ホワイトペーパーを通じて、5-MeO-DMTが自己解放と非二元性の探求において、比類なき可能性を秘めたツールであることが明らかになりました。それはエゴの構造を一時的に無力化し、自己の真の性質を直接的に認識する機会を提供します。しかし同時に、その使用には深い理解と、極めて慎重なアプローチが不可欠であることを再確認しなければなりません。これは単なる体験ではなく、変容へのコミットメントを要求するプロセスなのです。

6.2 「魔法の薬」ではない理由

5-MeO-DMTを「魔法の薬」や「悟りへの近道」と見なすことは、深刻な誤解を招きます。このアプローチが安易な道ではない理由は、以下の3つの点に集約されます。

困難なプロセス: この道は、自己の最も深く隠された部分、抑圧された感情、そして過去のトラウマと真正面から向き合うことを強います。それはしばしば、非常に困難で挑戦的な、自己を内側から引き裂き、再誕生させるようなプロセスを伴います。
自己欺瞞の危険性: 体験の強烈さゆえに、エゴがその体験を乗っ取り、自らを「悟った存在」や救世主であるかのような新たな物語を作り出してしまう危険性が常に存在します。あるいは、自らを「強力なシャーマン」であると信じ込むなど、より巧妙な自己欺瞞につながる可能性があります。
必要なコミットメント: 真の解放は、物質による一時的な体験だけで完結するものではありません。それは、日常生活のあらゆる場面において、真実に対して誠実であり続けるという、継続的なコミットメントと絶え間ない自己観察を必要とします。

6.3 最終的な位置づけ：旅を加速させる触媒

結論として、5-MeO-DMTは、自己変容の旅路を省略したり、飛び越えたりするためのものではありません。むしろ、個人の成長の旅に「燃料を注ぎ」、そのプロセスを劇的に加速させる強力な触媒として機能します。究極的に、5-MeO-DMTは自己実現の困難な作業を回避する道を提供するのではなく、むしろエゴの構造との直接的な対決を強いることで、その解体という挑戦的なプロセスを加速させ、旅の最終目的地である解放された状態の直接的かつ体感的な経験を提供するものなのです。

古代の非二元性とサイケデリック

サイケデリック利用の多様性、特に古代の非二元性とサイケデリックというより大きな文脈において、ソースは‌‌アートマン（Atman）とブラフマン（Brahman）の本質への探求‌‌について、歴史的基盤と現代的なサイケデリック体験との直接的な関連性を指摘しています。

古代ヒンドゥー教におけるアートマンとブラフマン

マーティン・ボール博士は、‌‌数千年も前‌‌の古代に遡り、サイケデリック使用と非二元性の探求との間に明確な関連性があったことを示しています。

‌‌リグ・ヴェーダの役割:‌‌
- 現在も活動している宗教的伝統の中で地球上に存在する‌‌最古の宗教文書‌‌である‌‌リグ・ヴェーダ（Rig Veda）‌‌にまで遡ります。
- リグ・ヴェーダは、特に‌‌バラモン教ヒンドゥー教‌‌の文献的基盤を形成しており、その少なくとも3分の1が神‌‌ソーマ（Soma）‌‌とその調合法（後にアムリタ Amrita とも呼ばれる）に捧げられています。
- これらの根本的なテキストにおいて、‌‌アートマンの本質‌‌と‌‌ブラフマンの本質‌‌、そして‌‌見かけ上の個別化された自己‌‌と‌‌現実の根本的な性質‌‌との関係について語り始められています。
‌‌ソーマとの関連:‌‌
- 古代インドでは、‌‌サイケデリック（ソーマ）‌‌の使用とアートマン/ブラフマンの本質の探求との間に明確な繋がりがありました。
- ソーマは、カンナビス、シロシビン・マッシュルーム、あるいはアヤワスカのアナログとなる植物など、何らかの形のサイケデリック植物であったと考えられています。
- これらの‌‌古代の宗教文書‌‌は、‌‌現実の非二元的な性質‌‌について非常に明確に語っており、悟りとは幻想や信念への‌‌執着から解放された真の自己の本質‌‌を明らかにすることであるとしています。

現代の非二元性と「真の自己」の認識

マーティン・ボール博士が推進するサイケデリック利用の「非二元的なアプローチ」は、古代ヒンドゥー教の探求テーマと概念的に一致しています。

‌‌真の自己の本質:‌‌
- ボール博士は、悟り（解放）を、‌‌「幻想的なエゴの束縛からの自由」‌‌と‌‌「真の自己の性質の明確な認識」‌‌として定義しています。
- 彼にとっての‌‌「真の自己」‌‌とは、個人（アートマンに相当）の人生の目的や呼びかけを探すような‌‌エゴ的なものではなく‌‌、‌‌「普遍的な自己」‌‌、すなわち‌‌すべての人にとって同じ普遍的な意識‌‌のことです。
- 真の自己の唯一の目的は‌‌「ただ存在すること（to be）」‌‌であり、普遍的な意識や神がしていることもまた‌‌「ただ存在すること」‌‌です。
‌‌5-MeO-DMTによる体験:‌‌
- 5-MeO-DMT（5-メトキシ-ジメチルトリプタミン）は、わずか数秒のうちに、‌‌「フルインフィニットな非二元性の意識状態」‌‌へと導く‌‌最も強力なサイケデリック物質‌‌として、この探求のための‌‌最も効果的なツール‌‌であるとされています。
- この状態では、‌‌すべてが自己の無限の性質‌‌として認識され、‌‌主体（subject）も客体（object）もなく‌‌、‌‌純粋な存在の本質‌‌のみが存在します。これは、古代のテキストが語るアートマンとブラフマンの究極的な統一（非二元性）を直接体験することに相当します。
- ボール博士が5-MeO-DMTを初めて体験した際、彼は即座に「神（God）」を認識し、それは‌‌「普遍的な意識と存在であり、すべての人であり、すべてのものであり、超越的なものではなく、現実に他ならない」‌‌ものであったと述べています。これは、ヒンドゥー教の文脈でブラフマンが究極の現実として捉えられる考え方と強く類似しています。

したがって、ソースは、アートマンとブラフマンの探求というテーマが、サイケデリックを利用した「非二元的な解放」という文脈において、‌‌リグ・ヴェーダ時代から続く古代からの伝統的な課題‌‌であり、特に5-MeO-DMTのような強力な物質が、この‌‌「真の自己の性質」‌‌（普遍的な意識）を直接かつ迅速に明らかにするための現代の手段として機能していると説明しています。

DMT体験における二元性の罠と非二元（ノンデュアル）意識への道：チベット仏教ゾクチェンの視点から

Me:

以下の対話部分で、DMT による非二元性の突破や悟りをチベット仏教の Dzogchen と絡めて話題にしています。この部分をまず和訳し、その上で全体の文脈に沿って敷衍して。

[Martin Ball] : And then you do get very rare reports where people said something like, well, then suddenly everything dissolved into a white light or a golden light and then I realized that I was that light and that light was God and that light was everything. So people do kind of slip into the non-dual awareness with NNDMT. But the vast majority of it, 99% of it, is on the dualistic side of things. And part of that is due to the highly visionary nature of it. (00:35:44)

[Martin Ball] : It's hard to have non-dual realization through visionary content. And, for example, we see this in Tibetan Buddhism, which ultimately is a non-dual tradition, but it starts novices out at a highly dualistic level. Well, first you're interacting with objects outside of yourself. Then you're learning how to visualize those objects in a visionary space. Then you're learning how to identify with the visual content. And then when you finally get to Dzogchen, to the great perfection, then you're dissolving all of it into empty space and realizing that that is the true nature of identity, is that empty space that doesn't have any specific visual content. (00:36:23)

[Martin Ball] : So it starts with duality and then gradually moves people into non-duality, where 5MEO just says, okay, boom, non-duality, there you go. (00:36:33)

[Leo] : Yeah, I think that's one of the things that I urge people to be cautious about if they're doing psychedelics, is that it's very easy to get lost and trapped in the visual phenomenon. And people who've never tried a psychedelic, they'll say, well, Leo, you know, like you guys are talking about this stuff, but how do you know you're not hallucinating and just seeing stuff, which then you come back to ordinary reality and it's not real anymore. And those people don't understand that actually what we're after here is not the visual hallucination or any thing that's being seen or even thought. (00:37:06)

[Leo] : It's a direct consciousness, which is different than anything that most people have ever experienced in their life. Like they don't even have the possibility that there is such a thing as direct consciousness and like, what could that even be? And so that's why 5-MeO is a beautiful thing is because 5-MeO is very clear. It doesn't cloud your mind like the way mushrooms do. Mushrooms are kind of cloudy and your thoughts get kind of twisted and distorted. (00:37:33)

1. はじめに：幻覚の先にあるもの

近年、スピリチュアルな探求の道具としてサイケデリクスを巡る議論が活発化する中で、ある決定的な区別が見過ごされがちである。それは、幻想的な「現象」を旅する体験と、意識の本質そのものに「直接」出会う体験との違いだ。本稿では、特に強力な幻覚作用で知られるNN-DMT（ジメチルトリプタミン）の体験に焦点を当て、多くの体験者が直面する「二元性」という根源的な課題を浮き彫りにする。そして、その構造を解明するための補助線として、チベット仏教の深遠な教え、特に「ゾクチェン（大いなる完成）」の視点を取り入れ、比較考察を行う。

本稿の分析は、サイケデリック研究の専門家であるマーティン・ボール博士と、意識変容の探求者であるレオ氏の対話に基づいている。次のセクションでは、議論の客観的な土台として、この対話の原文と専門的な和訳を提示する。

2. 分析の基盤となる対話：原文と和訳

本稿で展開する議論の客観性と正確性を担保するため、分析の核となるマーティン・ボール博士とレオ氏の対話の該当箇所をここに示します。まず原文を忠実に引用し、その後に専門用語のニュアンスを損なうことなく、文脈に即した自然な日本語訳を併記します。この作業により、読者の皆様と分析の前提を共有し、より深い理解へと進むための共通の基盤を構築します。

パート1：原文（English Text）

Martin Ball (00:35:17): And then you do get very rare reports where people said something like, well, then suddenly everything dissolved into a white light or a golden light and then I realized that I was that light and that light was God and that light was everything. So people do kind of slip into the non-dual awareness with NNDMT. But the vast majority of it, 99% of it, is on the dualistic side of things. And part of that is due to the highly visionary nature of it. It's hard to have non-dual realization through visionary content. And, for example, we see this in Tibetan Buddhism, which ultimately is a non-dual tradition, but it starts novices out at a highly dualistic level. Well, first you're interacting with objects outside of yourself. Then you're learning how to visualize those objects in a visionary space. Then you're learning how to identify with the visual content. And then when you finally get to Dzogchen, to the great perfection, then you're dissolving all of it into empty space and realizing that that is the true nature of identity, is that empty space that doesn't have any specific visual content. So it starts with duality and then gradually moves people into non-duality, where 5MEO just says, okay, boom, non-duality, there you go.

Leo (00:36:33): Yeah, I think that's one of the things that I urge people to be cautious about if they're doing psychedelics, is that it's very easy to get lost and trapped in the visual phenomenon. And people who've never tried a psychedelic, they'll say, well, Leo, you know, like you guys are talking about this stuff, but how do you know you're not hallucinating and just seeing stuff, which then you come back to ordinary reality and it's not real anymore. And those people don't understand that actually what we're after here is not the visual hallucination or any thing that's being seen or even thought. It's a direct consciousness, which is different than anything that most people have ever experienced in their life.

パート2：日本語訳（Japanese Translation）

マーティン・ボール博士 (00:35:17): そして、ごく稀にですが、「突然すべてが白い光や金色の光に溶け込み、自分がその光であり、その光が神であり、すべてであると気づいた」といった報告もあります。ですから、NN-DMTによって非二元的な気づきに滑り込む人々もいるのです。しかし、その体験の大部分、99%は二元的な側面にとどまります。その一因は、その極めて幻視的な性質にあります。幻視的なコンテンツを通して非二元的な悟りを得ることは難しいのです。例えば、これはチベット仏教にも見られます。チベット仏教は究極的には非二元的な伝統ですが、初心者を非常に二元的なレベルから始めさせます。まず、自己の外側にある対象と向き合います。次に、それらの対象を幻視的な空間の中に視覚化する方法を学びます。そして、その視覚化された内容と自己を同一化することを学びます。そして最終的にゾクチェン、すなわち「大いなる完成」に至ると、それらすべてを空（くう）の空間の中に溶解させ、特定の視覚内容を持たないその「空なる空間」こそが自己の真の本質であると悟るのです。このように、二元性から始まり、徐々に人々を非二元性へと導いていくのです。一方で5-MeO-DMTは、ただ「はい、ドカンと非二元性、どうぞ」という感じです。

レオ氏 (00:36:33): ええ、それこそが、私がサイケデリクスに取り組む人々に注意を促したい点の一つです。視覚的な現象に迷い込み、囚われてしまうことは非常によくあります。サイケデリクスを試したことのない人々は言うでしょう。「レオ、君たちが話していることは分かったが、それが単なる幻覚で、何かを見ているだけではないとどうして分かるんだ？日常の現実に帰ってきたら、それはもうリアルではないじゃないか」と。しかし、そうした人々は理解していません。私たちがここで求めているのは、視覚的な幻覚や、見たり考えたりするいかなるものでもないということを。それは「直接的な意識」そのものであり、ほとんどの人が人生で経験したことのないものなのです。

提示された対話は、NN-DMTの体験がなぜ多くの場合「二元性」の枠内に留まるのかという、本稿の核心的な問いを提起しています。次のセクションでは、この問いに対するボール博士の分析をさらに深く掘り下げていきます。

3. NN-DMTの「幻視の罠」：なぜ体験は二元性に留まるのか

NN-DMTの魅力がその超現実的なビジョンにあるとすれば、皮肉なことに、まさにその特徴こそが、探求者を洗練されたスピリチュアルな袋小路へと誘い込みます。ボール博士の分析が明らかにするように、この体験は単に二元的な世界を提示するだけでなく、主観と客観という認識構造そのものを積極的に強化し、非二元的な覚醒への飛躍を著しく困難にするのです。このセクションでは、NN-DMT体験がなぜ「幻視の罠」となりうるのか、そのメカニズムを解明します。

ボール博士の分析に基づくと、NN-DMT体験が二元性に留まる傾向は、以下の構造的な特徴に起因します。

圧倒的な視覚性 NN-DMTは、脳の視覚処理中枢を極めて強力に活性化させます。その結果、体験者は「これ以上は考えられないほどの高解像度」の幻視に没入し、多くの体験者が、自分たちは代替宇宙や他の惑星にいる、あるいはエイリアンなどと交流していると完全に信じ込むほどです（00:34:39）。
主観と客観の構造この幻視体験は、その性質上、本質的に二元的な構造を持っています。つまり、そこには常に「観察する自己（主観）」と、「観察される対象（幻視、エイリアン、異次元空間など）」が存在します。体験者がどれほど深く幻視の世界に没入しても、「何かを見ている私」という主客の分離が根底に存在し続けるのです。
二元性の強化この主客分離の構造は、結果として体験者の意識を二元性の枠組みの中に強固に留めてしまう傾向があります。ボール博士が「99% of it, is on the dualistic side of things（その体験の99%は、二元的な側面にある）」と断言している点は、この構造の強力さを示唆しています。体験は深遠であっても、それはあくまで二元的な現実認識の延長線上にあり、主観と客観の対立構造そのものを乗り越えるには至らないのです。
稀な例外もちろん、例外も存在します。ボール博士が指摘するように（00:35:17）、ごく稀に、幻視の世界全体が白い光や金色の光に溶け込み、自己と世界の区別が消滅するといった形で、非二元的な気づきに至るケースも報告されています。しかし、これはNN-DMT体験の主流ではなく、むしろその圧倒的な幻視作用を乗り越えた先にある、稀な到達点と言えるでしょう。

このように、NN-DMTがもたらす体験の華やかさそのものが、探求者を現象の世界に引き留め、主客分離を超えた純粋な意識状態への移行を妨げる「幻視の罠」として機能しうるのです。この課題をより広い文脈で理解するため、次のセクションでは、数千年の歴史を持つチベット仏教の段階的なアプローチと比較検討を行います。

4. 比較の視座：チベット仏教における段階的アプローチ

現代のサイケデリクス体験を、数千年の歴史の中で培われてきた伝統的な叡智の体系と比較することは、意識変容というプロセスの普遍的な構造を理解する上で極めて有益な視座を提供します。特に、チベット仏教が「二元性」という根源的な課題をどのように捉え、それを乗り越えるための洗練された方法論をいかにして構築してきたかを分析することは、NN-DMTが提示する課題を深く理解する上で不可欠です。

ボール博士が例として挙げたチベット仏教の修行プロセス（00:35:44 - 00:36:23）は、意図的に二元性から出発し、それを足がかりとして非二元性へと至る、極めて構造的なアプローチを示しています。その段階は以下のように整理できます。

ステップ1：二元的な実践の開始初心者はまず、自己の「外側」に存在する具体的な対象、例えば仏像やマンダラといった物理的な客体と向き合うことから修行を始めます。ここには明確な「私（主観）」と「仏（客観）」の分離、すなわち二元性が存在します。
ステップ2：内的な視覚化次に、修行者はそれらの外的対象を、自己の心の中、つまり内的な幻視空間に鮮明に視覚化する訓練を行います。対象は物理的な客体から心的なイメージへと移行しますが、「イメージを見る私」という主客の構造は依然として維持されています。
ステップ3：幻視との一体化さらに修行が進むと、その視覚化された内容、例えば観想する仏と自己を同一化する段階へと移行します。主観と客観の境界を意図的に曖昧にし、両者を統合しようと試みる高度な実践です。
ステップ4：ゾクチェン（究極の完成）最終段階である「ゾクチェン（Dzogchen, 大いなる完成）」において、修行者はそれまで作り上げてきた全ての視覚内容、全ての心的なイメージを、広大で形のない「空（くう）」の空間—ナーガールジュナ（龍樹）の言うところの空性（シューニャター）—へと溶解させます。そして、特定の視覚内容を持たないその「空なる空間」そのものこそが、自己の真の本質であると直接的に悟ります。ここに至って初めて、主客の分離は完全に消滅し、非二元的な意識が顕現するのです。

この分析から明らかなように、チベット仏教のアプローチは、二元性から始まり、段階的に非二元性へと移行するという、計算され尽くした構造を持っています。意図的に二元的な実践を「足がかり」として用い、それを乗り越えることで究極の境地へと至るのです。かくして、NN-DMTが体験者を観察者意識を強化する複雑な視覚的「内容（コンテンツ）」へと否応なく投げ込むのに対し、ゾクチェンの道は、観察する意識そのものの本性を明らかにするために、あらゆるコンテンツを意図的に「溶解」させていく体系的な訓練なのである。

この伝統的で漸進的なアプローチと、サイケデリクスがもたらす直接的な体験は、一体どのように異なり、また共通するのでしょうか。次のセクションでは、この問いに答えるため、総合的な比較考察を行います。

5. 統合的考察：二元性を突破する三つの道

これまでの分析を踏まえ、本稿は結論部へと至る重要な架け橋として、意識変容への三つの異なるアプローチを統合的に考察します。NN-DMT、チベット仏教（ゾクチェン）、そしてボール博士が対比的に言及した5-MeO-DMT。これら三つの道は、「二元性の突破」という共通のゴールに対して、それぞれがどのような独自の位置づけと特性を持つのでしょうか。その比較を通じて、探求の道のりの多様性と本質を明らかにします。

NN-DMTが示す道は、極めて鮮烈な幻視体験によって特徴づけられます。しかし、その体験は本質的に「見る私」と「見られる対象」という主客分離の構造を持つため、多くの場合、二元性の枠組みを乗り越えるどころか、むしろそれを強化してしまう危険性をはらんでいます。それはまるで、出口を探している者が、あまりにも美しく複雑な迷路に魅了され、迷路の中にいること自体を忘れてしまうかのようです。ごく稀に非二元性への突破口が開かれることはあっても、基本的には二元性の世界をより深く、より幻想的に探求する道と言えるでしょう。

これとは対照的に、チベット仏教、特にゾクチェンに至る修行体系は、二元的な実践（仏やマンダラの観想）を意図的に「足がかり」として用いる、構造的かつ漸進的な道です。長い年月をかけた訓練を通じて、主観と客観の境界を徐々に溶かし、最終的にすべての現象を「空」へと帰せしめることで、非二元的な悟りへと至ります。これは、堅固な土台から一段ずつ階段を上っていくような、着実な階梯（かいてい）です。

そして第三の道として、5-MeO-DMTは全く異なる次元のアプローチを提示します。ボール博士が「boom, non-duality, there you go（ドカンと非二元性、どうぞ）」と表現するように、それは幻視的なコンテンツをほとんど伴わず、脳のエゴ機能を直接的に圧倒することで、体験者を段階を踏むことなく、直接的かつ強制的に非二元意識の純粋な状態へと至らせます。これは、階段を上るのではなく、エレベーターで一気に最上階に到達するような、急進的でパワフルな道です。

この比較から明らかになるのは、同じ「悟り」や「非二元性」という目標を掲げていても、そこに至るプロセス、体験の質、そして乗り越えるべき課題には、根本的な違いが存在するということです。体験される華やかな「内容」に目を奪われることなく、意識そのものがどのように変容するのかを見極めることが重要となります。

これらの議論から導き出される最終的な結論、すなわち、体験の「内容」ではなく「意識そのもの」の重要性について、次のセクションで総括します。

6. 結論：現象の彼方にある「直接的な意識」へ

本稿を通じて、NN-DMT体験とチベット仏教ゾクチェンの教えを比較し、意識変容における「二元性」の課題を考察してきました。NN-DMTがもたらす圧倒的な幻視体験や、チベット仏教の修行で用いられる精緻な視覚化は、それ自体が探求のゴールではありません。むしろ、それらの「現象」や「内容（コンテンツ）」に囚われることは、レオ氏が警告するように、探求者を本質から遠ざける罠となりえます。

探求の真の目的とは何か。その答えは、レオ氏の言葉に明確に示されています。

「私たちがここで求めているのは、視覚的な幻覚や、見たり考えたりするいかなるものでもないのです。それは『直接的な意識』そのものであり、ほとんどの人が人生で経験したことのないものです。」 (00:36:54 - 00:37:06)

レオ氏が語るこの「直接的な意識」とは、チベット仏教ゾクチェンの伝統が「リクパ（rigpa）」と呼ぶものに他なりません。それは、万物の根源である原初の非二元的な覚醒意識を指します。見る主体と見られる客体という分離が消滅し、意識が意識そのものを直接体験する純粋な状態です。そこには、エイリアンも、神々の姿も、美しいマンダラも存在しません。ただ、無限で、全体であり、分離のない「在る」という事実だけがあります。

結論として、サイケデリクス体験であれ伝統的な修行であれ、その究極的な価値は、体験される現象の華やかさや特異性にあるのではありません。探求の究極の目的は、並外れた体験を積み重ねることではなく、この常に現前する光り輝く空性、すなわちリクパを認識することにあるのです。NN-DMTのビジョンもチベット仏教の神々も、適切に超越されなければ、かえってこの本質を覆い隠してしまいます。探求の道は多様であっても、目指すべき頂は、常に現象の彼方にあるこの一点に収斂されるのです。

Martin Ball の講釈も Leo の合いの手も、それをベースにした AI の解説も、どれも「精神世界に蔓延っている枠組みや観点」に忠実に沿っており、その意味では月並みかつ凡庸。

こういった枠組みや観点はまるごと全体が、超越的体験に幻惑された戯言でしかない。言い換えると「超越」体験は意識障害による妄想でしかない。

DMT や瞑想、密教的修行によって、意識レベルが日常的現実（二元性）を突破して、超越的世界に突入し悟ったのではない。意識の枠組みが崩壊したゆえに、その崩壊した意識にとって日常的現実が崩壊して二元性を突破したかのように見えただけの話。

（外部世界を内部に映し出す）意識の崩壊が、その崩壊した意識にとっては外部の二元性の崩壊に見えているだけ。崩壊した世界を超越的世界（＝世界の＜真の姿＞、存在の本源的ありさま、老子の衆妙之門、真如、事事無礙法界...などの無数の戯言）だ…そう思い込んでしまっている。まさに本末転倒。

情報源

動画(1:23:06)

Using 5-MeO-DMT To Become Enlightened - Interview With Martin Ball

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWSOl62memg

文字起こし（話者識別）

展開

[Leo] : Hey guys, it's Leo. And today we have a special episode of actualized.org where I'm going to be interviewing Martin Ball, PhD. He's an adjunct professor in Ashland, Oregon at the university there. And what we're going to be talking about is we're going to be talking about psychedelics and specifically 5-MeO because he's a big advocate of 5-MeO and what it can do for us spiritually and for development. So I want to talk to him because he's got a lot of experience with all sorts of psychedelics and specifically 5-MeO and he's got some amazing insights to share with us. (00:00:36)

[Leo] : So listen close because this could really change your life if you take into practice some of the things we're going to talk about here today. Hey Martin, say hey. (00:00:45)

[Martin Ball] : Hey, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me on Leo. (00:00:47)

[Leo] : Yeah, you bet, you bet. So I guess the most direct question, the million dollar question is can 5-MeO actually be used to attain enlightenment or however you want to call it, liberation or all the different words there are for this non-duality thing that we're going to be talking about. (00:01:07)

[Martin Ball] : The short answer is yes, absolutely. Though we had a prior conversation just the other week and one of the things that we talked about there is that I like to make a very clear and strong distinction between what I call an enlightenment experience and then what is actual enlightenment or liberation which I would define as freedom from the confines of the illusory nature of the ego and clear awareness of the true nature of the self. And that's something that's different from an enlightenment experience and it's very important to distinguish these things because in working with 5-methoxydimethyltryptamine, shorthand 5-MeO or 5-MeO-DMT, is the strongest psychedelic substance that exists on planet Earth and that, like for example, many people take it either by smoking it or vaporizing it and there's other methods as well, but that's the primary method would be smoking or vaporizing. (00:02:11)

[Martin Ball] : And when someone is smoking or vaporizing 5-MeO-DMT within a matter of seconds you go, if we want to call normal perception of reality as zero, you go from zero to infinity in a number of seconds. It comes on very, very quickly and if the ego can relax and surrender during that process, which keep in mind, many egos cannot and do not relax and let go. So it's perfectly possible for people to fight with the experience all the way through. But if someone relaxes and trusts the experience, within a matter of seconds, just within a matter of one breath, you suddenly enter into this full infinite non-dual state of awareness where everything is perceived as the infinite nature of the self that there is no subject, there is no object, there is just the pure nature of being. (00:03:01)

[Martin Ball] : That is what we can call an enlightenment experience where when people have that, the most common reaction that people have in coming back from that experience when they reintegrate in their ego is, oh my God, that was it. That, whatever enlightenment is, that was it. And so people are able to perceive that and appreciate that. But what tends to happen is that then the structures of the ego reform after that experience. And then a person is, in a sense, right back where they were before, to some degree. (00:03:35)

[Martin Ball] : Now, it's such a radical experience that for many people it is kind of paradigm shattering where prior belief systems suddenly don't make any sense anymore. Prior intellectual systems don't make any sense anymore. So it can cause people to kind of go through this rather deep process of self-analysis and looking at their belief structures and how they've categorized themselves in the world. So it can be very profound, very life changing. But I don't qualify that as actual liberation. (00:04:05)

[Martin Ball] : That liberation is something that is the result of a process through which people can go to unwind the ego, to kind of deconstruct it, to unpack places where it has created resistance or withholding within the individual. And that doesn't happen just from one enlightenment experience or even many enlightenment experiences. Because I've seen plenty of instances of people who have had many non-dual experiences, but I wouldn't necessarily consider them as being any closer to true liberation than anybody else. So I like to make that distinction, but once we understand that distinction, I would say 5MEO DMT is probably the most effective tool that exists on planet Earth for anyone who's looking to make progress to uncover the true nature of the self and liberate themselves from the prison of the ego. (00:04:54)

[Leo] : Yeah, well, that's quite amazing that such a substance can exist. And I've been interested in what you call non-duality and enlightenment and liberation for a long time now. And we've been talking about it a lot on actualized.org in various episodes. And one of the most difficult challenges that I face is just communicating that radical paradigm breaking thing as a concept. Because when we're talking language, when we're just talking on YouTube in a video or something, it's just like, well, it's words and I'm explaining something or you're explaining something. But it's like... and then they have to spend usually years or decades or thousands of hours of meditation or something like that to even get a taste, not even liberation, just to get an enlightenment experience. (00:05:42)

[Leo] : It takes thousands of hours of work and already extreme degrees of open-mindedness that many people don't have. Which is why when I learned about 5MEO, and I actually took it myself, like, wow. Because it's like you get even just a 10-minute preview of that infinite absolute state is just incredible because it's like, wow, everything I was studying and all that stuff, it's like, okay, that's kind of knowledge and theory. But then here's like the real full Monty, the real deal. (00:06:16)

[Leo] : It's the whole attitude towards this path of liberation. (00:06:22)

[Martin Ball] : Yeah. And I'd really like to emphasize what you've just said here, that it cannot really be communicated through words. I mean, language is ultimately a dualistic construct. It rests on the assumption of self and other through which there is a communication from one end to the other. So all language is built on the assumption of duality. And then words themselves are, by definition, limitations. That they are particular constructs that identify something as this, that, or the other thing. And so we have this word. (00:06:59)

[Martin Ball] : We have this word of infinite. And we've all seen the Hubble Space Telescope photos, and so we get a little glimpse. We have this idea, okay, infinite is like really, really big and really, really vast and just goes on and on forever. But that's still a concept. And so we have this idea of what infinity is, and part of the idea is, well, I can't really understand what infinity is because it's infinite, and so it's an idea. But when you have the experience of being infinite, you very quickly realize that it cannot be contained by any word, by any concept, by any idea, that it just is. (00:07:40)

[Martin Ball] : And the odd thing is that it can be experienced, but it can't necessarily be described. (00:07:48)

[Leo] : It's crazy because when I experienced it, it's at the same time there's such a sense of recognition of it, and it's like, oh yeah, of course. And it's also just like the only words are like, oh my God, like oh my God, like oh God, oh, and it's me, and it's me. (00:08:09)

[Martin Ball] : Yeah, those are the most common expressions. There's, oh God, can we swear on your show? Can we say naughty words? Okay, holy shit, that's a common one. And just wow, that those are the responses that people most often have when they have this experience. And keep in mind that these are the expressions also of people who maybe have spent years or decades in a meditative practice or even working with other powerful psychedelics and entheogens such as ayahuasca, that 5-MeO-DMT opens up this experience that is so far beyond anything else that I have yet to meet someone who is not radically impressed and just blown away once they've had this experience. (00:08:54)

[Leo] : Yeah, it's very big. (00:08:56)

[Martin Ball] : Yeah, it's quite incomparable. (00:08:59)

It's very big and it's very fast. (00:08:59)

[Leo] : Talk to me a little bit about, well see, one of the issues we face here is because even this whole discussion of psychedelic use, a lot of people have a stigma around it, just because of the way they were re-raised and what we were taught in school and so forth. And so some people are like, they're into smoking pot and they're into psychedelics a little bit, mostly for like recreational use and that kind of stuff, or a little bit of spiritual use. But what we're talking about here is a little different than that. (00:09:26)

[Leo] : We're talking about taking the field of psychonautics and also combining it with the field of non-dual serious consciousness work and combining and then finding the intersection point between these two circles, so to speak, and then really mastering that. So we're not talking about taking one hit of 5-MeO and then just saying, okay, yeah, I got it, I got it, that's it, cool, okay, let's go back to ordinary life. No, we're talking about how do you use this substance to actually transform your entire life, your entire relationship to people, to things, to yourself, who you think you are, all these things, which most psychedelic users, I don't see doing. (00:10:08)

[Leo] : And in fact, that's why there's a stigma there around it. And some people have even criticized me for it and said, you know, Leo, you talk about not taking shortcuts and magic pills and here you are promoting 5-MeO as like the miracle cure for enlightenment, like have you lost your mind? So talk to me a little bit about that. (00:10:25)

[Martin Ball] : Yeah, well, it's important to understand that, first of all, psychedelics are extremely varied. There's a wide variety of different psychedelics and they have different effects. I like to use the term of energon when we're talking about psychedelics in the sense that when we introduce a psychedelic into our biophysical system, what's happening is we're altering our ability to perceive and experience energy. And different psychedelics have different ways that they act on the body and therefore they have different signatures and they have different presentations and different ways of accessing our energetic nature. And so the varieties of experiences that they can engender are very, very broad and very, very wide. (00:11:05)

[Martin Ball] : And within that, there's nothing necessarily inherently spiritual about a psychedelic or inherently enlightening about a psychedelic because ultimately they are just an amplification and mirroring of the self. So someone's psychedelic experience is always a reflection of themselves. Now, some people take psychedelics because they want to go explore inner space or some people view it as astral space or outer space. I view it as an inner space, as a mental projection space. So some people think of themselves as explorers like, oh, I want to go see aliens and machine elves and really weird fantastical stuff. (00:11:49)

[Martin Ball] : And you can do that with psychedelics. And so for some people, it doesn't really go much further than that. So it's kind of a form of just as someone might want to go trek across the Himalayas and challenge themselves by climbing over mountains and encountering blizzards and snow and cliffs and things like that, that people enjoy kind of the thrill of taking psychedelics, that it can be this very exciting, very novel inner voyage. Psychedelics also can enhance certain sensory experiences such as music or dancing or art, which is why we see people taking psychedelics when they go to festivals and things like that, that it applies itself to that sort of situation. (00:12:31)

[Martin Ball] : Then there's also a psychotherapeutic component for psychedelics that they can be used in conjunction with traditional psychotherapy to help people uncover their hidden traumas and their hidden assumptions and kind of go through a healing process. Then we also have perhaps the shamanic approach where people see themselves as interacting with entities and realms and spirits and making contact with these entities for the purposes of gaining knowledge and for healing. And then lastly we have what I would consider the non-dual approach, which is something that is not seen very much in current psychedelic circles around the world because there hasn't really been much of a discussion in that area. (00:13:18)

[Martin Ball] : And really I'm one of the only people that I'm aware of in the broader psychedelic community across the globe who really emphasizes a non-dual approach to working with psychedelics. So it's not something that's really been brought out very much in contemporary culture. Now when we go back in time, much, much further back in time, so we're talking thousands of years, we go back to the writing of the Rig Veda in Hinduism. And this is the oldest religious text from a currently active religious tradition that exists on planet Earth. That's the Rig Veda. It's the first of the Vedas which forms the textual foundation for, in particular, Brahmanical Hinduism and then also later derivations of Hinduism as well. (00:14:03)

[Martin Ball] : But anyway, in the Rig Veda, at least one third of the Rig Veda is devoted to the god Soma and the preparation of the Soma drink, which also later gets referred to as Amrita. And these are some of the foundational texts that start to talk about the nature of Atman and the nature of Brahman and what is the relationship between the apparently individuated self and the fundamental nature of reality. And so in ancient India, there very much was a connection between the use of psychedelics, because that's what Soma is. (00:14:35)

[Martin Ball] : Soma is some form of psychedelic plant. On the somewhat mild end, it could be cannabis. On the somewhat more extreme end, it could be a form of psilocybin mushroom or even an ayahuasca analog, that we do know that there are plenty of plants in the Indian subcontinent that could be used as ayahuasca analogs. And so there in these ancient religious texts, they talk very clearly about the non-dual nature of reality and how enlightenment is about uncovering the true nature of the self, free from attachment to illusion and beliefs and such. But many of the currently active religious or spiritual traditions around the world that make use of psychedelics are more within the shamanic tradition, which has a far less emphasis on non-dual awakening and enlightenment. (00:15:26)

[Martin Ball] : There the emphasis is much more on practical approaches to healing. And so they're kind of like in the psychotherapeutic theater of the mind, dealing with spirits and entities can have therapeutic value. I don't necessarily think that it has an enlightenment value, but it has a very strong therapeutic value for people. And so that's where we see a lot of emphasis. And so a lot of people in the West have approached psychedelics more from a shamanic perspective, because that's where they see living traditions of use of psychedelics. And so they're kind of modeling themselves after that. (00:15:59)

[Martin Ball] : But there the discussion of non-duality is rather weak, I would say. There's a lot of, I would call it lip service, where you hear people say, oh yeah, everything's one, we're all one, so we can just love each other or whatever. So everybody says that. I think most people who say that are just basically parodying this phrase that they don't really understand what that means and haven't necessarily experienced it themselves, but they thoroughly believe it to be true. So they say, oh yeah, we're all one, we just love everybody, it's all okay. (00:16:26)

[Leo] : The people that I call hippies, I like to make fun of them sometimes. Okay, yeah, great, which is why I wanted to interview you, because you do stress the non-dual component, which I found very rare. I don't see anybody out there talking about that. So tell us a little bit about what your journey was like. How did you actually use 5-MEO to attain liberation? Because even that seems to be also very rare. (00:16:56)

[Martin Ball] : Yeah. Well, it starts, and this is what's important for anyone who's, I was about to say chasing after enlightenment. So in Buddhism they call it bodhichitta, that you approach the tradition because you have a desire to discover truth and to be liberated. Why would anybody become a Buddhist other than you're born in a Buddhist country and so everybody's a Buddhist or, hey, I'm a Buddhist. But if you actually want to become a Buddhist and become a monk or a nun, or if you want to pursue enlightenment, there has to be the desire for it. (00:17:32)

[Martin Ball] : And so that's bodhichitta, that's the awakening of the Buddha mind or the enlightenment mind. So you have the belief that, well, there is something that actually is enlightenment and that experience is somehow fundamentally true. It's more true than my ordinary perceptions. And that's something that I want to discover for myself. And I think that it's very important for any kind of non-dual seeking is that you have to come from that position of, in a sense it's very uncompromising. So within myself I had this own desire. (00:18:04)

[Martin Ball] : I want to know the truth. I want to know what's really real and I don't want to bullshit myself. I don't want to just fall back on comfortable beliefs. I don't want to just believe something because I think it's cool or because I think it's interesting or even because I think it's right. That I'm interested in knowing the truth for myself directly and immediately. Now, my assumption as an individual was, well, maybe that'll happen when I die. (00:18:30)

[Martin Ball] : Maybe the true nature of things will be revealed to myself and I'll figure it out. So I never really held that out as a genuine possibility. But I've certainly had that desire ever since I was a little kid. I grew up in a secular, non-spiritual household. But I was very curious about, well, what is this God thing that people are talking about and why do people believe this stuff? And I would hear stories, especially growing up in largely Christian communities, of this weird belief in the Son of God and redeeming us of our sins. (00:19:01)

[Martin Ball] : And I couldn't buy any of it. It just sounded like a bunch of hokey make-believe to me. And the notion that somehow we're sinners and we have to redeem ourselves so we can go to some everlasting life, either in a place of pleasure or a place of pain, it just struck me as being ridiculous. But I was curious, why do people believe this? And well, maybe God's real. Maybe people are just wrong about what they think God is. (00:19:24)

[Martin Ball] : So I got very interested in physics. I got very interested in philosophy. I got interested in the study of comparative religion. And kind of tried out different religions and different spiritual practices here and there. I found that I resonated most with Zen Buddhism. When I first encountered that, I just felt like, oh, you know, I can accept what these people are saying. They're not asking me really to believe anything. They're telling me to sit down, shut up, pay attention, see what happens. (00:19:54)

[Martin Ball] : And observe. Observe the ongoing endless chatter of the mind and just sort of the non-stop bullshit parade that is inhabiting our heads at all times. So I think that that's important, that I had that core commitment that I'm really interested in knowing what's real and I'm not going to give my belief to anything just because people tell me I should believe it. So that was very important to me. And then, just to quickly circle back around to your question, when I first encountered 5-MEO-DMT, and we talked about this a little bit... (00:20:30)

[Leo] : Let me interrupt you for a second because I think we didn't make the distinction clear that 5-MEO-DMT, in case, for those that are not experts on this, it's very different from regular DMT. So it's not NN-DMT, which is the regular DMT that people smoke and talk about. 5-MEO, I very rarely hear anybody talk about, ever. Like, you're one of the only people I've heard talk about it. So I just want to make that point clear. (00:20:55)

[Martin Ball] : Yeah, it's, you know, sometimes when people hear 5-MEO-DMT, they think, oh, DMT, you're talking about DMT. Well, the majority of people, when they talk about DMT, that's NN-DMT. And that's what you find in most versions of the ayahuasca drink. There are versions of ayahuasca that are made with 5-MEO-DMT, but they're very, very rare. So the vast majority is made with NN-DMT. And NN-DMT was very much popularized by people like Terence McKenna and also the work of Rick Strassman in his book DMT, The Spirit Molecule. And in the psychedelic underground, many people still to this day consider it to be the top psychedelic compound that there couldn't possibly be anything beyond that. (00:21:43)

[Martin Ball] : And as someone who has experienced both DMT and 5-MEO-DMT, I'll let you know that 5-MEO just leaves NN-DMT in the dust, which NN-DMT is amazing. It's very, very powerful. It's very, very strong. It does not compare to 5-MEO-DMT. Really nothing does. And so there hasn't been a lot of cultural discussion around 5-MEO-DMT. When I first started talking about it and writing about it, the only other person who was really publicly talking about it was James Orrock, and he had a book coming out right around the same time called Tryptamine Palace, and it was the first book specifically written about 5-MEO-DMT. And at this point, and this was back in 2008 and 2009, at this point I would say I've probably written and spoken more about 5-MEO-DMT than anybody else because I've written about six or seven books in which 5-MEO is one of the main subjects, and I've been lecturing and giving interviews about it for the past eight or nine years now. (00:22:47)

[Martin Ball] : So awareness is growing about it, but it's still ultimately very low. Now to circle back around to your question again, when I first experienced what I consider a full release dose of 5-MEO-DMT, it came at a very significant time in my life in that I had been in a marriage and in a relationship for many, many years since my ex-wife and I, we first met when I was 18 years old, so I was rather young, and then we went on to get married and we had two kids. But the reality was that the majority of our relationship together, we weren't really together, and I was very unhappy with that relationship. (00:23:34)

[Martin Ball] : But I covered that over with all kinds of spiritual mumbo-jumbo about how this was teaching me about non-attachment and how to overcome my desires and teaching compassion and selflessness. And that was all just more bullshit of the ego trying to convince me that I shouldn't act on what I truly felt, which was I wanted out of this relationship. So a point came in late 2007 where I finally, fully actually admitted to myself that I knew I was unhappy, I knew I wanted out of this relationship, but I wouldn't even admit it to myself, let alone anybody else. And I finally reached the point where events conspired that I was finally honest with myself and said, you know what, I haven't been happy most of my adult life, and if I don't do something about it now, then I'm probably never going to do anything about it. (00:24:27)

[Martin Ball] : So at that point I ended up leaving my wife and I left my job and I left my kids, and that was definitely not an easy decision to make, but it was done within the context of this is the truth of what's in my heart, and I'm no longer going to lie to myself or try and convince myself that I should do anything other than what I actually feel. And I'm going to pay attention to that, and I'm going to follow that. (00:24:50)

[Martin Ball] : And of course, everybody's saying, oh, you have to be reasonable, you have to be rational, you can't do that. It's like, no, no, I'm just going to follow my heart. Typical hippie line, I'm just going to follow my bliss, man, I'm going to follow my heart. But the significance of that is that when I first encountered 5MAO DMT, I didn't have a job, I was completely broke, I had just left this relationship, I had moved to a new community, I didn't know anyone. All of my safety nets, all of my normal structures of my life, I'd already pulled the rug out from underneath me. (00:25:25)

[Martin Ball] : So in a sense, and I had this very large child support payment to make every month and I didn't have any idea how I was going to make it, so I was scared, I was just, I was ready, in a sense. And in some respects, I was ready to die, I was ready to just give up because the situation that I was in was just personally very challenging, it was very difficult, and I didn't know what was going to come of it. So when the 5MAO experience started to unfold for me, I was just completely ready to let go into that, I was ready to die. (00:26:02)

[Martin Ball] : And that's what I thought, and that's a very common experience as 5MAO DMT starts to unfold, is that the ego thinks, holy shit, I'm dying. And right there are choices presented where the ego can say, okay, yes, or the ego can say, no, no, I don't want to die. And when I encountered that, I was like, okay, yeah, I'm ready, let's just go, let's just go. And that was the first time I had a full non-dual experience, and it's also the first time I would say I've encountered the true nature of God. And that was quite profound for me, because I knew within seconds, it was just, holy shit, it's God, this is impossible, this is impossible, this can't possibly be real. (00:26:50)

[Martin Ball] : But that was the immediate recognition, which, as I said, just before I even exhaled, the hit is, oh my God, it's God, this is it. (00:26:59)

[Leo] : Yeah, it's amazing, it's amazing how similar that is to my experience. I mean, we use the word God, but it's so funny, but both of us have a very similar background, and both of us are non-religious, and in fact, both of us are kind of squeamish about religion. It's like, no, that's the wrong idea, right? It's anti-truth. It's the opposite. The point of it is to hold you back from discovering what's true. (00:27:24)

[Leo] : And what's so twisted about it is that the people who believe in God the most are probably the ones that have never actually had a direct experience of God. (00:27:32)

[Martin Ball] : No, because most, especially in Western cultures, most beliefs about God rest on a dualistic presumption that God is the transcendent other, God is the creator, God is separate from creation, that God is everything that we are not, God is the ultimate authority, that we have to submit to God, that we have to obey God, that God creates rules, and so it creates this notion of God as the ultimate authoritarian figure, who may be considered as loving or kind or whatever else, but it still posits the idea that God exists outside of us, or outside of reality, and somehow has control over this thing that we call reality, that God's the ultimate boss. (00:28:19)

[Leo] : And he's also got a human figure to him, too. So it's like, whenever I think of God, it's always like a being. It has to have an anthropomorphic kind of shape. And then what's really cool is when you have the five MEO, it's like, oh no, it's just infinity. It's the infinity of all of reality at once. (00:28:38)

[Martin Ball] : Right. And so that's what became clear to me in that experience, is that God is very real in that there is one universal consciousness and being that is everyone and everything, and it is not transcendent in any way. It actually is reality, that all of reality is God experiencing itself. And also, I turn to the word God, having come from a Zen Buddhist tradition, that I wasn't comfortable with the concept of Buddha mind, where in a lot of Buddhism that pure consciousness or the Buddha mind is described as completely empty. Most Buddhism describes itself as an atheistic religious tradition. (00:29:26)

[Martin Ball] : And so here, it's not that I'm promoting the idea of a creator God, because this isn't a creator God, but I felt more comfortable with the term God than Buddha mind, because it was also conscious and aware, and that it is living through the vehicle of myself as an individual human being, just as it is through you. So it's also the first thing that came out of my mouth. So this hit came on, and the first thing I said was just, thank you, God. It wasn't, thank you, Buddha mind. (00:29:58)

[Martin Ball] : It wasn't, thank you, all pervasive consciousness. It was, oh my God, it's God. Thank you, God. I need to express my gratitude, and I'm going to call you God. (00:30:06)

[Leo] : That's what surprised me about the experience as well, is because I don't talk about God in my content. I don't talk about God in my episodes, in my videos, or any of that. I don't like that kind of language. I prefer, if I'm rationally thinking about it, I prefer more kind of stripped down, scientific-like language, so it's just kind of like the truth, or absolute infinity, or something like that. But what was interesting, when I had the 5MEO, it's just like, oh my God, those are the words. (00:30:37)

[Leo] : It's like, yeah, like you said, it wasn't like, oh, Buddha, I saw Buddha. Or it wasn't like, oh, this is nothingness. It was like, no, this is infinity. It's absolutely infinite. (00:30:48)

[Martin Ball] : Yeah, and that's important to distinguish, that it's not this sense of emptiness or nothingness. That it's the full, infinite complexity of everything, eternally and simultaneously. And it's conscious, and aware, and alive. (00:31:06)

[Leo] : Yeah, it's totally mind-blowing. It's totally mind-blowing. (00:31:09)

[Martin Ball] : So, you haven't asked the question, but I'll just say this, that one of the reasons that this works the way that it does, is that what we're dealing with here, this is 5-methoxy-dimethyltryptamine. And tryptamine is the basic building block of a human neurotransmitter. And so, actually, all mammals run off of tryptamines in terms of our nervous system and our conceptual system. And as a mammal, we actually naturally produce both 5-MeO-DMT and NN-DMT, that these two psychedelic compounds are present inside our bodies at all times. And also, NN-DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are very rare molecules in that they can immediately pass the blood-brain barrier. (00:31:58)

[Martin Ball] : And what that means is that when we ingest them, especially through something like smoking or vaporizing, there's an almost immediate translation into the full-blown nature of the experience. So, with many things that we consume in our bodies, there has to be a complex chemical process that takes place in order for our body to utilize it. That's not the case with 5-MeO or NN-DMT. Basically, we introduce it to our system and our brain says, yes, give me that, thank you, that it doesn't have to go through the whole security check system. (00:32:31)

[Martin Ball] : It just immediately passes. And what's happening is these molecules, these neurotransmitters are then activating certain receptor sites on our brains. And quite interestingly, someone that I've interviewed on my own podcast, The Entheogenic Evolution, is Dr. Thomas Ray. And he's done a wide variety of studies looking at how different psychedelic compounds either activate or deactivate different receptor sites in our neural networks. And what he's found is that 5-MeO-DMT almost exclusively acts, and I don't remember the exact receptor, but he says it acts specifically on this one receptor that seems to be most closely associated with the ego and individuated consciousness. And so when 5-MeO is introduced to the system, essentially it holds the potential to completely overwhelm the ego, which is unlike any other psychedelic that most other psychedelics kind of have a broad spectrum of neurotransmitter receptor sites that they activate. (00:33:44)

[Martin Ball] : So they have, you know, you have auditory hallucinations, visual hallucinations, out-of-body experiences, phantom limbs, you know, all different kinds of things that people might experience because we're activating all these different aspects of the brain. 5-MeO seems to directly target the ego and says, nope, and just overwhelms it, which is why 5-MeO is more ideally suited to helping people enter into non-dual states of awareness than any other psychedelic. Because, you know, for example, NNDMT is very, very powerful, but it heavily activates the visual processing centers of the brain. (00:34:24)

[Martin Ball] : So when someone consumes NNDMT, it's extremely visual, it's over-the-top visual, it's the most high-definition, high-resolution visual component you can ever possibly imagine, to the degree that many people who consume NNDMT thoroughly believe themselves to be in alternate universes or on other planets or interacting with aliens and other such things. But notice, when you're in a quote-unquote visionary state of consciousness, there's always a subject-object duality that's taking place there because there is a subject, the self, that is observing some other, some object that is perceived to exist outside of the self. So most reports from people using NNDMT are still on the very much dualistic side of things. (00:35:17)

[Martin Ball] : So it starts with duality and then gradually moves people into non-duality, where 5MEO just says, okay, boom, non-duality, there you go. (00:36:33)

[Leo] : And so it's kind of like, eh, maybe I'll see something on mushrooms, but maybe I'll kind of delude myself or I'll see some weird visuals on NNDMT. But with 5-MeO, my mind, my thoughts are very, very clear. And it's just like a direct portal of consciousness opens up. (00:37:50)

[Martin Ball] : Yeah. And it's important, again, to emphasize that it's not about seeing or perceiving anything. I mean, that there is a perceptual content to it, but what's more important is the feeling and the recognition that this is truth. And that might sound like maybe an abstract concept, but I would urge everyone who's listening that everybody knows the difference between when they're lying and when they're telling the truth, because you can feel it. It might be something as simple as, hey, do you like my haircut? (00:38:23)

[Martin Ball] : And we say, hey, you look great. And internally, we know it's like, oh, I just fully bullshitted that person because I didn't want to hurt their feelings, but actually, I don't like their haircut at all. So you can feel the difference. And then if you've been lying to yourself or if you've been lying to someone, and then when you finally admit the truth, there's this sense of release and relief, like, oh, finally. Like when I finally admitted to myself that actually I've been really miserable in my marriage, and I always put it on something else. (00:38:55)

[Martin Ball] : It was always somebody did this, this problem, that problem. And when I finally admitted that, there was just this opening in my heart. It's like this sense of, oh, finally, you're telling the truth. And it's not because that's objectively true or that I can point to this like, oh yeah, it's true and I can show you. It's like, no, I can feel it. I can feel the truth of it. (00:39:19)

[Martin Ball] : And so that's what 5MAO can do is help us enter into the state where we just can feel like, oh my God, everything really is one. Everything really is love. Everything truly is infinite. There is nothing to be afraid of, even my own death, that everything is just the self interacting with the self. And the truth of it, sometimes people want to argue, that people want to get into arguments about whether it's duality or non-duality. And it's like, look, when you enter into the non-dual state, it's just so immediately, obviously clear. (00:39:55)

[Martin Ball] : There's no point in arguing past that point. And I'm not going to try and prove it to you because it's up to you to experience it for yourself. And when you experience it, it's just obvious. It's like, oh yeah, okay, this is true. (00:40:08)

[Leo] : Yeah, the ones who argue are usually the ones who just want a reason to stay like closed-minded, basically. (00:40:17)

[Martin Ball] : Yeah, they want to argue about belief systems. They want to say, well, that's your belief versus my belief. And there's a very clear difference between truth and belief. And this is one of the great things that 5MAO can help people to sort out within themselves. Because honestly, people are very, very confused on this issue, especially spiritual and religious people in the new age where people talk about, well, if you believe it, it's true. And that we have to respect everybody's beliefs. (00:40:45)

[Martin Ball] : Most beliefs are bullshit. There's no reason to respect bullshit. It's like, oh, you have a lovely stinking pile of bullshit and you're parading it around and please honor and respect my bullshit. I'm sorry, but it's still bullshit. And there's a difference between what you believe and what's actually true. And most of what we think is true is not really true. And encountering absolute truth is so different than anything else that, again, we can't really compare it. We can't really describe it. (00:41:21)

[Martin Ball] : When you feel it, when you have the experience, you know it. It's obvious. (00:41:24)

[Leo] : And that's why 5MAO, I think, is an important tool, let's say, in our toolbox for developing ourselves, is that it can actually very quickly and kind of rather effortlessly reveal the difference between relative truth and absolute truth, which is something that otherwise people would never work their way towards. Because it takes too long. It's too hard to sit there on your ass and meditate for years to get a little glimpse of it. And even then, you know, it's still very challenging. (00:41:55)

[Leo] : So I think that that's why this can be such an important tool for human development. But let's circle back around to how did you actually use 5MAO? Because, yes, you had your first mind-blowing experience, and I've had one or two of those myself. But I don't feel liberated. So how do I now, let's say that I've tried 5MAO a couple of times, and now I want to, like, get my liberation. How do I get there? (00:42:25)

[Martin Ball] : All right, get your liberation on, baby. Well, okay, so my own personal process, it's kind of a long, complex story, so we're not going to get into that. And I'll say the same thing that I said to you when we spoke the other day, that I wrote a whole book about it. It's called Being Infinite. And I wrote the book specifically to address this question of, well, how did you do it? How did you go through this process yourself? (00:42:46)

[Martin Ball] : So I'll speak a little bit more generally at this point, rather than get into my own personal story. And I'd invite anybody who's interested. My book is Being Infinite. It's out there on Amazon. Go check it out. But here's what I learned very quickly in working both with 5MAO DMT and other medicines during this same time period. First, I noticed this in myself, and then I started looking to see if this was true for other people and very quickly found that this was true. There's a fundamental distinction. (00:43:21)

[Martin Ball] : When people go into fully energetically open, non-dual states of awareness, and I do qualify it with fully energetically open because that's different than, say, a meditative non-dual experience, which I do not qualify as energetically fully open. When someone is energetically fully open and goes into a non-dual state of awareness and experience, what happens is their bodies always open up with a perfectly mirrored bilateral symmetry where the left and right sides of the body always mirror each other and nothing ever crosses this center line of the body. So people move spontaneously or their bodies open up and their hands may come together, but they come together right here in the middle along the center line and then they separate and they come back together. (00:44:08)

[Martin Ball] : Then you can see a transition when suddenly someone comes back into the ego. So they're fully immersed in the experience and their bodies are open and then as soon as the ego comes in, there's some kind of break where suddenly the left side of the body is doing something different than the right side of the body. For people who don't get all the way to being fully energetically open, you give them a powerful psychedelic which again is changing the energetic experience of the body and you can watch them fight with it and you will see that there's always some kind of asymmetry taking place in their body language when they're fighting with it or if they're still residing in their ego. So I learned very quickly that non-dual states of awareness coincide with balanced bilateral symmetry and the ego almost always functions through some form of energetic asymmetry, which is perfectly natural. (00:45:02)

[Martin Ball] : I mean there's nothing wrong with it. I'm not trying to criticize it, but for example, I use this example all the time, my glass of water is to my right. Now if I, a subject, become thirsty and I want my water, operating with bilateral symmetry isn't going to get me my water. My water is over here to the right so I break into subject-object duality so that we can have an interaction between these two different parts of the self. So working with psychedelics for the intention of achieving not only achieving non-dual states of awareness but also working out the distortions of the ego means paying attention to how either symmetries or asymmetries show up within the body. (00:45:49)

[Martin Ball] : So this is kind of the challenge that I give people is take some 5-MeO DMT and see how long you can stay perfectly symmetrical within your body. Now some people can write it all the way through and they can do that fairly easily. Many people, I would say the vast majority, can't. And even those who do, who open up initially and are in this nice bilateral symmetry, you will see after 10 or 15 minutes, or for some people after 30 seconds, as soon as the ego starts to reintegrate, they start breaking into asymmetries. Now what can happen is, so the ego itself, and this is also just coming out of my own experience, this is not based on anybody else's model, this is just my own definition of the ego, is the ego itself is not a singular thing. (00:46:43)

[Martin Ball] : It's a collection of patterns of energy. So as we're coming into ourselves as young beings, what we are doing is we are learning different, what we perceive as acceptable ways of engaging our energy. And here I always make a distinction with my dog, okay? My dog. Someone knocks on the door, my dog always barks. So there's an energetic stimulus and she has a natural response to that. Now when she does that, my dog does not then go and say, did I sound too much like a cat when I said that? (00:47:20)

[Martin Ball] : Or maybe I was too aggressive, that I wonder how that person feels about that? Or I just don't feel like barking today, that I'm actually feeling kind of down on myself, so maybe I'll just woof. No, she doesn't do that. There's an energetic input and she has an energetic output and it is completely uncensored and unstructured. So for the dog, it's completely natural. Everything she does is completely natural. (00:47:41)

[Martin Ball] : Human beings, because we have this capacity for deep self-awareness, that as we're growing up, we start to observe our parents, our society, our culture, our religion, whatever spirituality we're born into. And we learn, oh, there are different ways people should express themselves. There's different ways they should behave. There's different ways they should use their bodies. There's different ways that they should use their tone of voice. And so we learn how to constantly edit and censor our own natural energy rather than simply being as we are. (00:48:17)

[Martin Ball] : That we are, we're domesticated. (00:48:20)

[Leo] : It's almost like an introversion because the dog in that case is very just extroverted. It just kind of like throws it out there and it doesn't care. And then the introvert is the one who just kind of like goes inside and analyzes everything to death. (00:48:34)

[Martin Ball] : Right. And so what that does is that creates energetic structures so that rather than just saying what we actually think is that we learn, oh, we need to say what's socially or culturally acceptable and what isn't going to piss other people off or make them feel uncomfortable. And then we also do the same thing with our thoughts internally. And this actually governs the entire use of our body because our body is just an energetic vehicle. Our thoughts are energy. (00:49:01)

[Martin Ball] : Our feelings are energy. Our expressions are energy. Our body motions are the engagement of energy. And so we create this image for ourself that is a collection of these patterns of energy where we say this collection of patterns is me and everything else is not me. Okay. So we create these dualistic divides between self and other. And then we take on all these things. And ultimately what that does is that creates a character or creates a persona. In the same way, like, for example, if I were going to play a drunk for you right now, I'd kind of be like sloshing my words and like kind of just moving around like that because I'm just so smashed and I love you so much. (00:49:44)

[Martin Ball] : I just want to love you so much. Right. So that creates the drunk character, which is different from the sober Martin character, but it's different ways of engaging energy. Okay. So now what happens when we take something like 5-MeO-DMT is that it's so energetically powerful that as we've stated, it has this infinite quality to it. All of the patterns of our ego are by definition are limited. They're not infinite. (00:50:09)

[Martin Ball] : So we have the opportunity to actually overwhelm all of the patterns of the ego with it. I call it energetic shock therapy for the ego. Okay. We introduce so much energy that the ego just says, I give up. I can't maintain my sense of self. And so it reaches the point where the ego can choose to surrender. And it's very important. I really stress this. No psychedelic can ever violate your free will because it's just an amplification of yourself. There's nothing else and no one else there. (00:50:43)

[Martin Ball] : It's just you. So you get to choose if you're going to go all the way or not. That if you choose no, you can fight with it and you can actually maintain the patterns of the ego. It's very, very difficult. It's very horrifying and terrifying. So I don't recommend it. It's much, much better if you just say, Hey, I give up. It's kind of like getting on a roller coaster. And once you get on the top of the roller coaster, like screaming and crying to get someone to let you off, you're going to have a much better time if you just say wee and go for it and relax. (00:51:08)

[Martin Ball] : But anyway, it can deconstruct the patterns of the ego. Now, because we have these patterns of the ego, they tend to create holdings and distortions of energy within the individual, which again, my dog doesn't have. I mean, she's just clear and clean. If she wants to bark, she barks. People, if they want to bark, they don't bark. They do something else. And that creates all these blocks within the vehicle of the individual. So this is one reason why when people take psychedelics, they do a lot of purging, a lot of throwing up or maybe screaming and laughing and crying or stripping off all their clothes or having diarrhea. (00:51:43)

[Martin Ball] : It's not the substance coming out of them that's important. It's that it's releasing stored energy. And the vast majority of people are holding stored energy in their abdomens because this is where we react energetically to fear and withholding and feelings of needs of protection versus being vulnerable. So working with psychedelics can help us to clear out the stored baggage that we've created for ourselves. And I guarantee you, everybody's got it. (00:52:11)

[Martin Ball] : So there's no judgment there. Everybody is walking around with a huge pile of shit inside them that they could just let go of, but they don't know how to do it because most of the choices that we've made regarding the structure of our ego comes from when we're very small children and we made choices that I'm going to behave this way and not this way. I'm going to be like this and not like that. (00:52:29)

[Martin Ball] : So we're not consciously aware of these patterns now. So first of all, 5-MeO can get you all the way out of the ego. So suddenly you can experience like, oh no, this is the real deal, this infinite non-dual perception. But then the structures of the ego kind of close back in on the person. I do this with my hands. It goes clink, clink, clink, clink, clink. And these structures come back in. (00:52:53)

[Martin Ball] : And that can actually help someone become aware of, oh, I've created myself as this kind of victim, or I've created myself as this kind of spiritual seeker, or I've created myself as this kind of guru, or I've created myself as a musician, or as a writer, or as a happy person, or as an unhappy person. And these are all the patterns I've established around that belief. And at the dualistic level, then you start to perceive, and this is how I've created the characters of the people that I've interacted with in my life to help prop up the story of the character that I've created for myself. (00:53:26)

[Martin Ball] : So it's actually all a self-constructed narrative that perfectly fits and matches my own beliefs about myself, and what I think I deserve, and what I think I'm worthy of, or how I should be treated. So it can increase levels of self-awareness. But see, the danger is then that people immediately start engaging in those patterns. So here's where I tell people, rest in symmetry. And what you find is that suddenly one side of your body starts to become very uncomfortable, like, oh, because I want to engage this pattern that actually engages the left side of my body or the right side of my body. (00:54:02)

[Martin Ball] : And that by resting in symmetry, it allows the distortions created by these patterns to come to the surface, where then if you're working with a skilled facilitator, can help you actually work out the stuck energy, and can actually dissolve that pattern so that then you become free to choose something else for yourself. Or ideally, choose to live in no particular patterns and learn how to be so acutely aware of energy that you just go with what is as it presents itself, without ever trying to control it, without ever trying to edit it. In other words, people learn how to simply be themselves outside of the illusory construct of the ego. (00:54:48)

[Martin Ball] : And then rather than the ego being a prison, then I liken it to a garment of clothing that either comes on or goes off, or you can change it as necessary. And actually, it all functions automatically. So you do not ever need to do anything. You just learn how to be true. And that's the biggest thing, is that commitment to the non-dual is to commitment to truth. And that means being committed to truth personally, of not committing our minds to things that we don't know for certain are true, which is the vast majority of everything. (00:55:19)

[Martin Ball] : It means being committed to expressing ourselves openly and honestly and clearly. It means not backing away from what we truly think or feel. And that can be kind of harsh for people sometimes, because a lot of culture is based on the white lie, the casual lies that we constantly tell ourselves and other people to help society function and get along, so we all get pissed off at each other all the time, or whatever it is. (00:55:51)

[Martin Ball] : But it means that we're wrapped in layers and layers and layers of lies, and we all get pissed off at each other in the end. Still, that's the thing, is that telling people what they want to hear helps in the immediate situation, helps smooth things over at the social level. It never helps anyone in the long run. (00:56:12)

[Leo] : Yeah, it's bad. (00:56:14)

[Martin Ball] : So, the process of non-dual liberation means you need to commit yourself to becoming aware of yourself, of the choices you are making, of the energy that you experience that you're either being true to, or that you are somehow compromising or editing. And that's a process. And so, the enlightenment experience, the non-dual experience, helps with that. Because you need to have the non-dual experience somewhere in there so you can actually see what's really going on. But then the rest of it is fine-tuning and becoming more and more aware of the cloak of the ego and how you've constructed a character for yourself. (00:56:51)

[Martin Ball] : And the problem with the ego is that it convinces us that we are the character that we're playing, but that's not true. It's just a character that we're playing. This one universal consciousness is playing billions of characters simultaneously. That's who and what we truly are, is the universal consciousness. So, in different bodies, we inhabit different characters, but it's just a character. There's one actor playing billions of characters simultaneously. So, it's learning how to loosen the grip that we have on the dualistic side of our identity and rest within the infinite nature of the non-dual nature of the self. (00:57:32)

[Leo] : So, basically, if somebody wanted to apply this, everything that you just described, if someone wanted to apply that theory, then what they could do is they could smoke or snort some 5-MeO. They could have this experience of absolute consciousness and truth, infinity. And then they could see, like, oh, yeah, okay, so there's something greater at work here than just myself. And I've got this ego that's kind of playing itself out. And then the ego will come back and it'll kind of close back down. (00:58:05)

[Leo] : And you'll come back. You're not going to be enlightened. You're going to come back and you're probably going to be pretty much like you were before, maybe a little bit more open-minded. And then if you keep doing that over and over and over again on a weekly, monthly sort of basis, and you keep examining how your ego is coming back and closing down and how your ego is distorting and manipulating and doing all this kind of stuff with your energy and your thoughts and your beliefs and it's trying to cling, then after a long process of that, then maybe one day they reach a point where... (00:58:38)

[Leo] : describe what happened with you. Where's the ultimate place that you kind of reached? (00:58:42)

[Martin Ball] : Yeah. So first I'll just say a little bit more about the process, that this process also involves lots of vibrating in the body, because again, people are kind of closed off energetically. And so a lot of shifting and opening needs to take place there. So most people who go through this, they spend a lot of time vibrating and shaking. It also might entail not being able to speak in your natural language for periods of time where people are just babbling incoherently, glossolalia kinds of phenomenon. It also involves a lot of toning and vocalizing from people, screaming, yelling, laughing, crying. (00:59:22)

[Martin Ball] : Some people have orgasms, some people shit themselves. There's lots of purging that takes place, because again, the ego has spent a lifetime trapping this energy in and it needs to sort itself out. And that can be mentally extraordinarily confusing, can be emotionally tumultuous. Most people hide their true emotions from themselves and they have to encounter them fully. And the ego, the monkey mind, is constantly going to be trying to make a story out of it and say, oh, well, here's the story for you. So people get messiah complexes or they get victim complexes or they start to think, oh, well, maybe I'm this really powerful shaman or something like that. (01:00:02)

[Martin Ball] : And so they create stories and narratives for themselves and the ego wants to cling on to that. So it's always like the Zen idea of, look, the monkey mind is going to be swinging from tree to tree. Your job is just to observe it. You don't attach yourself to any of the thoughts and you don't try and block any of the thoughts either. Let them come, let them go. Let the stories come, let them go. (01:00:22)

[Martin Ball] : Now, for me personally, what happened was that there was God on one side and there was Martin on the other side. And in going through this process, the line between the two got blurrier and blurrier and blurrier, which of course was very confusing for Martin because the ego is trying to think, well, who am I? What am I? What does this mean for me? And so that's tricky because that's where the ego can say, oh yeah, that's me. I'm it. (01:00:50)

[Martin Ball] : It's all me. It's not you. It's me because it's me. So the ego can co-opt any of this stuff that it wants to. And we see this in religious traditions all the time and people proclaiming, oh yeah, I actually am the second coming of Jesus. That's where the ego is just like, oh yeah, it's me and creates a story about it, which is just more bullshit. Or I actually am Maitreya. I am the future Buddha. Or I am the hidden imam. (01:01:18)

[Martin Ball] : All the major religious traditions have this. Or when we have Hindu gurus, they mean that they're the avatar of Vishnu or whatever. Again, it's just, it's story. It's ego. Feel free not to listen to it. Now, for me personally, when the final crack came, because my ego is trying to understand all of this and what does it mean and is it really real or am I just bullshitting myself? When my ego finally just said, okay, this is reality. (01:01:51)

[Martin Ball] : This is God. I'm God. Everything is God. This is just what it is. When I finally just accepted that, it was like a switch got thrown. And as I described to you the other day, it was essentially like I was tripping 5meodmt all the time for several months on end, where it was literally like I just had a pipe right here next to me and it was just taking hit after hit. But curiously, at times that infinite energy would calm down and everything would come back and sort of a dualistic perception. (01:02:24)

[Martin Ball] : And then the Martin character would reappear. And this would initially, it only happened when I went to the university to lecture, where my entire mannerisms, my tone of voice, the way that I speak, everything shifts when I'm outside of my ego. So like right now, I'm talking to you through the Martin character, and this is what I use for 99% of my social interaction because that's my character and I don't have a problem with that. But initially, I describe it as when lots of little kids figure out they can actually take their clothes off, they prefer to be naked. (01:02:56)

[Martin Ball] : Well, when I really crack, that's what happened, where I would just energetically, the ego is just off all the time, unless it was socially appropriate for me to have the clothing on, like when I went and would go teach at school. And so there was this tremendous energetic release and it was just kind of freedom. And I also thought at that time that I probably wasn't ever going to sleep again because I'd be lying in bed at night. It was like I was just tripping, just constantly, just nonstop visual explosions and fractals and mandalas and just infinite, infinite, infinite and stars and galaxies. (01:03:33)

[Martin Ball] : And so I thought, okay, well, I guess I'm never going to sleep again. But then that took a couple of weeks to die down and eventually I was sleeping again. And then eventually after a few months, it was like I was resting more within the ego. Because at first, it was just like, I just got to take this thing off, just be gone, be gone. But then it's like, it can be here. And so that's kind of where I'm at now, where I wear it most of the time. (01:03:58)

[Martin Ball] : But the difference is, I will never again, ever, because I'm conscious of how it works now, I will never put myself in the prison of the ego. That I'm more than happy to play the character of Martin through this particular vehicle. I've got no problem with that. But the character will never again, trap me the way that it had trapped me before. Because I don't identify with it. It's just, no, I'm just expressing myself through this particular character. (01:04:27)

[Martin Ball] : And when I don't need this character, the character just, boom, just disappears. And I'm totally comfortable with that. So it used to be a very dramatic, there's Martin on one end and then there's, wow, there's the infinite nature on the other end. And now it's just more of this, okay, ego's coming off. We're going into non-dual. Okay, non-dual, very good. Then now we're coming back into duality. (01:04:48)

[Martin Ball] : Okay, come back into duality. So the transitions are very, very smooth. It's not this disjuncture. And honestly, this is what I've seen with a lot of people with 5MEO DMT experience, is that they have what I call a jump. They jump from the ego all the way into non-duality and then boom, they're trapped back in the ego again. Whereas ideally is learning how to do this in a way that there's a smooth transition open and then a smooth transition closed. And then it's not this disjuncture. (01:05:18)

[Martin Ball] : And for many people who experienced 5MEO DMT, the non-dual part of their experience is a complete blank. It's a whiteout. They don't have any recollection of it. And that's very, very common. That they can, they remember their ego saying, oh shit. And then they remember their ego saying, well, fuck, I'm back. What just happened? But during the non-dual part, zero recognition, zero recollection of what that was. So learning how to be self-aware is how to be aware of our energy in all states. (01:05:49)

[Martin Ball] : Not just the closed dual, but also the infinite non-dual and how to ride the wave all the way open and all the way closed again and stay relaxed, centered, calm and present through it all. And when you can do that, you're golden. And if you can do that through every moment of your life of every day, because we're always confronted with the choice, am I going to freak out and try and control things or just relax and go with what is, we make that choice every moment, every moment. And if you can do that 100% of the time, you're golden, you're done. (01:06:20)

[Leo] : And so to be clear here, we're not really talking about using this substance just as a magic pill, because I don't want to get to have people to get the wrong impression where it's like, oh yeah, I'll just take some substance. And then like, I don't have to do any more personal development work. I don't have to, I don't know. It's actually quite the opposite. What you're saying is the substance is actually the thing that opens you up to really get into the really juicy, deep work that has to be done that normally people don't want to do or aren't even capable of doing because their eyes really haven't been open to these possibilities. (01:07:00)

[Leo] : It's really taking and pouring fuel on the sort of personal development journey, pouring fuel on that whole thing and then just like speeding it all up. (01:07:09)

[Martin Ball] : Yeah. And it's, it is not like you get to pass over stuff. It's like, the best metaphor I have is like, it's giving birth to yourself repeatedly. Now, and I mean that in the sense of the trauma and difficulty and intensity of giving birth. I have three kids, I have his present for all births. And that's, man, that's tremendous. And this is what it's like to use medicine, these entheogenic medicines to go through this process of birthing yourself as the being that you've always been. It means tearing yourself open from the inside out and cleaning out and looking into every last little secret hidden nook and cranny of your mind and your belief system and clearing it out. (01:07:59)

[Martin Ball] : You don't get to jump over anything. And it's deeper and more effective than any other methodology. And it's extraordinarily challenging. There's nothing easy about it at all. I mean, people think, oh yeah, you're taking a shortcut or you're just taking the easy way out. It's like, you do not have a clue what you're talking about. If you easy, if you think this is some kind of shortcut, it's just accelerated. You still have to go the same distance in a sense. (01:08:29)

[Martin Ball] : You're just moving through it faster in a way that you are more acutely aware of what's going on. And there's also the potential for people to radically delude themselves through this process as well. So it takes vigilance. I mean, you really have to be vigilant with yourself or else you just often la-la-land and you're in hippie bullshit new age, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. (01:08:55)

[Leo] : Yeah, it's a tricky path to walk. And it's funny because last time we talked, you said, oh, after 5-MeO, other psychedelics, I started asking about like, what about mushrooms? What about salvia? What about other stuff? And you're like, well, other psychedelics get potentiated after 5-MeO. And I was kind of like, yeah, okay. And then I took some mushrooms a few days ago, actually, and that was the first substance I've ever taken after my 5-MeO experience a few weeks ago. And it's like, wow, the mushroom experience was totally different than, and it was like gut-wrenching this time because I had a couple of mushroom experiences where they were just beautiful, like very nice, very kind of like walking through la-la land, you know, it's just like heavenly. (01:09:40)

[Leo] : And here I take this one and it's like, what the hell is this? This is not what mushrooms were before. I took mushrooms, it's like, wow, this is so deep. And also a lot of shit starts coming up too. My own shit, it's like, oh, you know, my arrogance, you know, the mushroom gods are punishing me for my arrogance, you know, thinking that I got it all down. And that was a very tough trip and, you know, like very emotionally, very emotionally stressful. (01:10:08)

Yeah. (01:10:09)

[Martin Ball] : So here's the opportunity when no matter what arises, you rest in symmetry. And here body language becomes important that the ideal body language says, I'm open, I'm relaxed, I'm embracing my experience and I'm letting myself be vulnerable. And even though you just want to curl up into the fetal position and whimper in the corner, you open up to it and then all of a sudden you're throwing up and or whatever and it's releasing. And then you feel, oh, I let it go. (01:10:42)

[Martin Ball] : It scared the shit out of me, but I let it go. I moved through that. And that's what I mean by the, you are birthing yourself and it's, man, it's messy. And oftentimes there is sort of this flirtatious, seductive quality with psychedelics where people think, oh man, that was just so beautiful. And see, then you think, oh man, I've got this down. I can just relax. And it's like, okay, now I've got you. (01:11:07)

[Martin Ball] : Now we're going to rake you over the coals because your defenses are down. And that happens. It's very, very common where people encounter a psychedelic and they think, okay, well, this is cool. I can ride with this. But after the smiley introduction, the courtship is over. It's like, okay, now we're getting down to the dirty work and it's grueling and it is so challenging, but it's worth it because it clears you out in a way that really nothing else will. Because they're working on us mentally, energetically, emotionally, physically. (01:11:45)

[Martin Ball] : It's crossing all the levels, whereas when we go for psychotherapy, we're mostly dealing with mental content or emotional content. Or if you're getting body work, then you're getting somatic therapy. Or if you're doing a special cleanser diet, then you're getting gastrointestinal stuff. But this is full spectrum across the board. And so that's what really allows all of this stuff to move in a way that's extremely efficient. Again, it's not a shortcut, it's just more efficient. (01:12:13)

[Leo] : Yeah, it's amazing. The first time I got my big breakthrough, I noticed what was very characteristically unique about it is that it kind of melted my whole body. It wasn't just a mental thing. It melted my heart. I felt like energy was just going through my whole body orgasm kind of experience, which is amazing. And also what you were talking about, the body symmetry. When I was going through this tough mushroom experience, I remembered your insights about that. And I'm like, okay, I got to open up, open up. (01:12:54)

[Leo] : And I was trying to surrender to it, but also it was difficult to surrender. And there were points where I didn't surrender properly. And I noticed during some parts of that trip, it was like a four-hour trip, but I would be sitting on my couch in this very totally twisted up manner, twisted up in grotesque ways, just like my legs crossed twice or three times over in a pretzel. What is this? (01:13:20)

[Leo] : That's what Martin was talking about. (01:13:22)

[Martin Ball] : Yeah, that's literally what happens. See, because we're dealing with energy here and the left and right sides of the body are actually processing energy differently. And so when you're really energetically open and say your legs cross, it's like taking two live wires where then the energy starts to wrap around itself. And people can actually experience really severe cramps when this takes place. At lower levels of energy, you'd never notice it. But the higher level the entheogen, the more likely these kinds of phenomenon are going to take place. (01:13:54)

[Martin Ball] : And so part of the advice that I tell people, because it happens, the ego pattern engages and people don't realize that they're engaging it. But whenever you become aware that you're twisted up or you're asymmetrical, you don't beat yourself up because the ego does that as well. It's like, oh, you're doing it wrong. It's like, look, just shut up, okay? I'm just becoming aware, okay? (01:14:14)

[Martin Ball] : So when you become aware of it, then you bring yourself back into symmetry. And then the same thing goes for... I have this sort of mantra of do nothing. Do absolutely nothing. As soon as you become aware that you're doing something, because it's usually a projection of the ego where people think, oh, I'm healing the sacred feminine of the universe or whatever it is that you think that you're doing. When you become aware that you're doing it, stop it. (01:14:42)

[Martin Ball] : Go back to a neutral position and just rest. Feel your breath. (01:14:46)

[Leo] : When you say do nothing, you mean during the trip, do nothing. Like, don't distract yourself with stuff. (01:14:53)

[Martin Ball] : Yeah, don't distract yourself either with physical activity or mental stories or trying to figure things out or accomplish things. So again, this is the non-dual approach. Now, many people use psychedelics and they want to use them as part of a religious ritual. And they're doing things during the religious ritual for the spirits or God or whatever it is, singing hymns and chanting prayers and trying to heal people. Well, that's more at the practical level of psychedelics. (01:15:17)

[Martin Ball] : That's not the non-dual approach. If you want to approach them non-dualistically, you have to learn how to do nothing because the ego is a chronic, busy body. It loves ritual and ceremony and prayer because it makes it feel like it's doing something that it should. It's all ego. It's all attachment. It's all illusion. Learn how to rest in doing nothing. And when you actually do nothing, when you accomplish that, the weird thing is that then the body starts to spontaneously act on its own. And then people might even spontaneously start to speak on their own. (01:15:55)

[Martin Ball] : And even the ego can be there saying, who said that? Those words just came out of my body, but I didn't say that. Who said that? And so the more we relax the ego, the more our genuine energy is able to express itself both physically, mentally, emotionally, and verbally. And then the doing... it's like in Taoism that they say the Taoist sage accomplishes everything by doing nothing. In my opinion, that's exactly what's intended. (01:16:32)

[Leo] : Yeah, my audience is pretty familiar with that because I've been pushing the idea of do nothing not only... not specifically during tripping, but just in our ordinary life. People are way too busy. They're distracting themselves with all sorts of useless stuff. So I always talk about kind of minimalizing your life and just have more room just to sit and to kind of think or even don't think. Just sit. (01:16:53)

[Leo] : Just sit and see what happens because we don't do that anymore. (01:16:56)

[Martin Ball] : Yeah, and also it applies to activities as well. So an example that I'll give here is I'm a musician, so I spend a lot of time making music. And that's obviously a form of doing something. But my approach to music is generally when I record a song, I have no idea what the song is going to sound like. I've never played it before. I don't have any particular intention. And I sit down in front of the computer and then I just start to do stuff. (01:17:23)

[Martin Ball] : And whatever sounds good to me, I just keep following that. And then three or four hours later, I'll have a complete song done. But it's not because I sat down and said, I want to make a song that sounds like this. This is what I'm going to do because that's a form of doing where we set an intention and say, I have a particular outcome that I'm trying to achieve. That becomes a task of the ego. (01:17:45)

[Martin Ball] : And many musicians, many performers know this, that the harder you try to put on a good performance, the worse it's going to be. (01:17:55)

[Leo] : Yeah, you've got to flow with it. (01:17:56)

[Martin Ball] : You've got to flow with it. And so that's a form of, again in Taoism, this is wu-wei, this is actionless action, that you're letting the action take care of itself. Then you become the vehicle for the expression of that. But it's not based on your intention or desire. It's just, okay, I'm just going to let it happen. And the more we can do that throughout all of our interactions throughout the day, the more at peace we are, and the more present and centered and clear we are. It's just that simple. (01:18:26)

[Martin Ball] : So by learning how to do nothing, you can do everything that you need to do without ever getting in your own way. And that just makes life so much sweeter and richer and freer. (01:18:37)

[Leo] : Yeah, that's the goal. The goal is liberation. The goal is freedom from your own mental prison. Okay, great. Well, I hope you guys took that to heart. There's a lot of stuff here. And what I liked about this conversation is that it connected with a lot of things that I normally talk with you guys about anyways. So hopefully you can see how we're talking about psychedelics, but we're also really talking about personal development. We're talking about self-actualization. (01:19:07)

[Leo] : We're talking about how to let go of your ego and to discover your authentic self, your real authentic self, time in your life. (01:19:16)

[Martin Ball] : Yeah. And that that real authentic self is a universal self. Sometimes when that language gets used, people think, oh, well, I want to find who I truly am and what my calling and purpose is. Ego, ego, ego. The true self is the universal self. It's the same for everyone. So if you think that, oh, well, if I get in touch with my true self, I'll know what my purpose in life is. No, you won't. (01:19:42)

[Martin Ball] : Your only purpose in life is to be. That's all that you're ever doing anyway. That's all that the universal consciousness of God is doing is just being because that's all that there is to do. There's no goal to be achieved. There's no, you know, there's nothing to do. Just enjoy yourself. (01:19:58)

[Leo] : Just exist. Existence is here to exist. (01:20:02)

Yeah. (01:20:03)

[Martin Ball] : So just be. It's cool. You know, it's like the dude, the dude abides. (01:20:07)

[Leo] : The dude abides. That's good. All right. So we're going to wrap it up here. Let's let viewers know how they can get in touch with you and some of your work because you do have quite a bit of work out there. First of all, I want to let folks know that you do host the annual psychedelics conference. Are you still hosting that for next year? (01:20:26)

[Martin Ball] : Yeah. So that's the Exploring Psychedelics conference. It happens at Southern Oregon University in the spring and coming up in 2017, it will be in, I think it's the very beginning of June. This last year we had about maybe 500 participants. We had 35 different speakers from all around the world. It's quite exciting. So that was our third year. So we're going into our fourth year. So that's something I've been organizing. (01:20:50)

[Martin Ball] : I also organize smaller events locally here in Ashland. Like just this past weekend, we had the Entheogenic Wisdom Forums at the Peace Village Festival and I had seven different speakers for that. I also have my podcast, which is the Entheogenic Evolution podcast, which has recordings from the conferences are available there as well as interviews that I've done and lectures that I've given. (01:21:15)

[Leo] : Yeah, your podcast is great. I really recommend you guys check out his podcast because I've been listening to it. And he has a lot of experts that he interviews from the psychedelic community and not just hippie experts, but like doctors, PhDs, people who are really doing serious research on this using psychedelics for therapeutic purposes, as well as for developing consciousness for spiritual purposes. So a lot of really great information there. I'll have links to that stuff below in the description so you guys can go click on those. (01:21:49)

[Leo] : And also tell about your books. (01:21:51)

[Martin Ball] : Yeah, so I'm quite a prolific writer. I think I've written like 17 books or something like that. You can find pretty much all of them on Amazon or Kindle, the iBook store. So my web page is just martinball.net. I write both fiction and non-fiction. I'm quite a big fan of fiction writing, so I like to write fantasy, science fiction, epics, things like that, all with a psychedelic bent. I'm also a musician, so you can find my music out there. (01:22:25)

[Martin Ball] : It's available on iTunes. And I'm also an artist, so I've got a lot of visionary art that's out there as well. So I just like to express myself, I guess. (01:22:34)

[Leo] : Great, yeah. I love some of your fractal psychedelic art. It's really beautiful. (01:22:41)

[Martin Ball] : Cool. (01:22:42)

[Leo] : All right, Martin. Well, thank you for your time. Thanks for educating us about 5MEO, and keep leading the cause, because I think that this is something that really has a lot of potential to transform people in the future. (01:22:52)

[Martin Ball] : Excellent. Well, it's been a pleasure speaking with you, and thanks for having me on your show. (01:22:56)

(2025-10-14)

前置き​

要旨​

目次​

5-MeO-DMTと非二元性の探求：マーティン・ボール博士による洞察​

エグゼクティブ・サマリー​

序論：5-MeO-DMTと悟りの可能性​

5-MeO-DMT体験の性質​

即時的かつ絶対的な非二元性​

言語と概念の超越​

「神」の直接体験​

他のサイケデリックとの比較​

5-MeO-DMT vs. NN-DMT​

作用機序の特異性​

解放へのプロセス：エゴの解体​

魔法の薬ではない​

エゴの構造​

身体的対称性の役割​

エネルギーの解放と浄化​

サイケデリック使用における非二元的アプローチ​

結論：解放された状態​

「悟りの体験」と「真の解放」は違う：5-MeO-DMTが意識にもたらす深遠な変化​

導入：究極の幻覚剤と「悟り」をめぐる問い​

1. 5-MeO-DMTとは何か？ — 「もう一つのDMT」との決定的違い​

2. 瞬間の「悟りの体験」— 無限を垣間見る10分間のプレビュー​

3. 「真の解放」への長い道のり — 体験とプロセスの違い​

4. 解放へのプロセス：自我という「牢獄」から抜け出す方法​

結論：人生を変えるための「道具」として​

ホワイトペーパー：5-MeO-DMTを用いた非二元性の探求と自己解放への道筋​

1.0 序論：意識変容の究極的ツールとしての5-MeO-DMT​

1.1 戦略的背景：現代意識探求における5-MeO-DMTの台頭​

1.2 「ゼロから無限へ」：5-MeO-DMT体験の性質​

1.3 本書の目的​

1.4 探求の基盤となる区別​

2.0 最も重要な区別：「悟りの体験」と「真の解放」​

2.1 「体験」と「状態」の混同：探求における認識論的エラー​

2.2 「悟りの体験（Enlightenment Experience）」の定義と特徴​

2.3 「真の解放（Actual Liberation）」の定義と本質​

3.0 解放を阻む壁：エゴの構造と機能​

3.1 エゴの理解：敵ではなく、分析対象として​

3.2 エゴの再定義：固定された実体ではなく、学習されたエネルギーパターンの集合体として​

3.3 エゴが二元性を維持するメカニズム​

3.4 エゴのパターンを圧倒する「エネルギー・ショック療法」​

4.0 解放への実践的フレームワーク​

4.1 理論から実践へ：変容を定着させる技術​

4.2 ステップ1：前提条件 - 意図と降伏​

4.3 ステップ2：中核的実践 - 身体的対称性と「何もしない」こと​

4.4 ステップ3：浄化のプロセス - 蓄積されたエネルギーの解放​

4.5 ステップ4：最終的な統合​

5.0 なぜ5-MeO-DMTなのか？その特異性と体験の性質​

5.1 非二元性の探求における特異な位置づけ​

5.2 5-MeO-DMT vs NN-DMT：決定的な違い​

5.3 「神」との遭遇：内在する普遍的意識としての認識​

5.4 信念を超えた直接的な「真実」の認識​

6.0 結論：加速された変容の道筋であり、安易な近道ではない​

6.1 ツールとしての可能性と責任​

6.2 「魔法の薬」ではない理由​

6.3 最終的な位置づけ：旅を加速させる触媒​

古代の非二元性とサイケデリック​

古代ヒンドゥー教におけるアートマンとブラフマン​

現代の非二元性と「真の自己」の認識​

DMT体験における二元性の罠と非二元（ノンデュアル）意識への道：チベット仏教ゾクチェンの視点から​

1. はじめに：幻覚の先にあるもの​

2. 分析の基盤となる対話：原文と和訳​

パート1：原文（English Text）​

パート2：日本語訳（Japanese Translation）​

3. NN-DMTの「幻視の罠」：なぜ体験は二元性に留まるのか​

4. 比較の視座：チベット仏教における段階的アプローチ​

5. 統合的考察：二元性を突破する三つの道​

6. 結論：現象の彼方にある「直接的な意識」へ​

コメント​

関連​

情報源​

文字起こし（話者識別）​

前置き

要旨

目次

5-MeO-DMTと非二元性の探求：マーティン・ボール博士による洞察

エグゼクティブ・サマリー

序論：5-MeO-DMTと悟りの可能性

5-MeO-DMT体験の性質

即時的かつ絶対的な非二元性

言語と概念の超越

「神」の直接体験

他のサイケデリックとの比較

5-MeO-DMT vs. NN-DMT

作用機序の特異性

解放へのプロセス：エゴの解体

魔法の薬ではない

エゴの構造

身体的対称性の役割

エネルギーの解放と浄化

サイケデリック使用における非二元的アプローチ

結論：解放された状態

「悟りの体験」と「真の解放」は違う：5-MeO-DMTが意識にもたらす深遠な変化

導入：究極の幻覚剤と「悟り」をめぐる問い

1. 5-MeO-DMTとは何か？ — 「もう一つのDMT」との決定的違い

2. 瞬間の「悟りの体験」— 無限を垣間見る10分間のプレビュー

3. 「真の解放」への長い道のり — 体験とプロセスの違い

4. 解放へのプロセス：自我という「牢獄」から抜け出す方法

結論：人生を変えるための「道具」として

ホワイトペーパー：5-MeO-DMTを用いた非二元性の探求と自己解放への道筋

1.0 序論：意識変容の究極的ツールとしての5-MeO-DMT

1.1 戦略的背景：現代意識探求における5-MeO-DMTの台頭

1.2 「ゼロから無限へ」：5-MeO-DMT体験の性質

1.3 本書の目的

1.4 探求の基盤となる区別

2.0 最も重要な区別：「悟りの体験」と「真の解放」

2.1 「体験」と「状態」の混同：探求における認識論的エラー

2.2 「悟りの体験（Enlightenment Experience）」の定義と特徴

2.3 「真の解放（Actual Liberation）」の定義と本質

3.0 解放を阻む壁：エゴの構造と機能

3.1 エゴの理解：敵ではなく、分析対象として

3.2 エゴの再定義：固定された実体ではなく、学習されたエネルギーパターンの集合体として

3.3 エゴが二元性を維持するメカニズム

3.4 エゴのパターンを圧倒する「エネルギー・ショック療法」

4.0 解放への実践的フレームワーク

4.1 理論から実践へ：変容を定着させる技術

4.2 ステップ1：前提条件 - 意図と降伏

4.3 ステップ2：中核的実践 - 身体的対称性と「何もしない」こと

4.4 ステップ3：浄化のプロセス - 蓄積されたエネルギーの解放

4.5 ステップ4：最終的な統合

5.0 なぜ5-MeO-DMTなのか？その特異性と体験の性質

5.1 非二元性の探求における特異な位置づけ

5.2 5-MeO-DMT vs NN-DMT：決定的な違い

5.3 「神」との遭遇：内在する普遍的意識としての認識

5.4 信念を超えた直接的な「真実」の認識

6.0 結論：加速された変容の道筋であり、安易な近道ではない

6.1 ツールとしての可能性と責任

6.2 「魔法の薬」ではない理由

6.3 最終的な位置づけ：旅を加速させる触媒

古代の非二元性とサイケデリック

古代ヒンドゥー教におけるアートマンとブラフマン

現代の非二元性と「真の自己」の認識

DMT体験における二元性の罠と非二元（ノンデュアル）意識への道：チベット仏教ゾクチェンの視点から

1. はじめに：幻覚の先にあるもの

2. 分析の基盤となる対話：原文と和訳

パート1：原文（English Text）

パート2：日本語訳（Japanese Translation）

3. NN-DMTの「幻視の罠」：なぜ体験は二元性に留まるのか

4. 比較の視座：チベット仏教における段階的アプローチ

5. 統合的考察：二元性を突破する三つの道

6. 結論：現象の彼方にある「直接的な意識」へ

コメント

関連

情報源

文字起こし（話者識別）