Dr. Massimo Teodorani : Hessdalen Lights を科学観測。プラズマの発光現象だと判明。プラズマの長時間自己保持や封じ込め機序が謎だ ⇒ この機序を推測する

October 18, 2025 · 189 min read

前置き

過去記事、

Dr. Massimo Teodorani : Hessdalen Lights を科学観測。プラズマの発光現象だと判明。プラズマの長時間自己保持や封じ込め機序が謎だ

の動画を AI で整理した。

Massimo Teodorani や Anthony Peake の語る「プラズマ生命体が…、量子論が…、二元論が…、変性意識が…、」といったヨタ話には興味はないが、Hessdalen での異常発光現象のデータは重要なゆえに取り上げる。

仮説 : orb が長時間、浮遊し続ける機序

以下のデータ、

知性の発現：ヘスダーレンの光球がレーザー光線に反応して点滅速度を2倍にした事例は、単なる物理的反応ではなく、知的な応答である可能性を示唆する。

観測事実: 1984年のヘスダーレンでの実験では、研究者が光球にレーザー光を照射したところ、光球がその脈動の周期を正確に倍加させるという反応を9回中8回示しました。これは、外部からの刺激に対する能動的な応答と解釈できます。

が信頼できるとすれば、やはり

orb は励起状態にあり、
外部から点滅するレーザー光の刺激によって、orb の発光周期が倍の周期で同調した

…これを、あたかも「知的な応答」だと誤認したのだと判断する。つまり、純然たる自然現象。

Hessdalen の orb が最大で 2時間も存続する機序は不明だが、ブラックホールを持ち出すのは早すぎる。峡谷の特殊な地質構造がもたらす電磁的結合によってエネルギー供給がなされていると判断するのが妥当。身近な具体例で喩えると、IH 調理器。

推測だが、Hessdalen 峡谷の上空では時折、低周期の電磁的な脈動が生じている筈。その脈動は（容易に観測にかかる）時間微分成分ではなく、（観測が容易ではない）空間微分成分ではないか。言い換えると、峡谷全体として見ると（＝峡谷全体を空間積分すると）電磁変動はゼロに近い値なので、観測にかからない。だが、ごく狭い領域で空間微分すると脈動が生じている。その脈動がエネルギー供給源となっている。

いわば、舞台芸の皿回し。棒の上（＝峡谷の上空）で皿（＝ orb）が落下せず（＝消滅せず）自転し続けているのは、皿を支えている棒が小幅の周期で振動（＝空間微分成分の脈動）し続けることで、皿に自転エネルギー補給し続けているため。棒それ自体が時間的に増減しているわけではない（＝時間微分はゼロ）。

要旨

意識、量子、UAP：ピークとテオドラニの対話

この対談は、‌‌Anthony Peake‌‌がホストを務める「Anthony Peake's Consciousness Hour」に、イタリアの宇宙物理学者である‌‌Massimo Teodorani博士‌‌をゲストとして迎えた際の文字起こしです。

二人は、量子力学の示唆する‌‌意識の性質‌‌や‌‌多次元的現実‌‌といった、専門分野を超えた領域の議論を展開しています。特に、Teodorani博士が専門知識を活かしてノルウェーの‌‌ヘスダーレンの光‌‌のような未確認航空現象（UAP）を‌‌科学的に調査‌‌していることに焦点が当てられており、これらの現象を説明するための‌‌プラズマ生命体‌‌や‌‌量子物理学‌‌の概念が探求されています。

また、二人は‌‌ウィキペディアでの批判‌‌など、既存の学問的パラダイムに挑戦する研究に伴う課題についても触れています。

前置き
仮説 : orb が長時間、浮遊し続ける機序
要旨
アントニー・ピークとマッシモ・テオドラニ博士の対談：主要テーマと洞察
デヴィッド・ボームの量子論が意識と異常現象に与える影響：マッシモ・テオドラニ博士の洞察に基づく理論的考察
UAP/Hessdalen 現象の研究
変性意識状態
ペンローズ・ハメロフ理論
バイオフォトンの研究
情報源
文字起こし

アントニー・ピークとマッシモ・テオドラニ博士の対談：主要テーマと洞察

エグゼクティブ・サマリー

本ブリーフィング・ドキュメントは、イタリアの天体物理学者マッシモ・テオドラニ博士へのインタビューから得られた主要な洞察とテーマを統合したものである。テオドラニ博士は、主流の天体物理学における厳密な科学的手法と、未確認空中現象（UAP）や意識といった異常現象への深い探求を結びつけている。

最重要のポイントは以下の通りである：

ヘスダーレン現象の科学的分析：ノルウェーのヘスダーレンで観測される光現象は、単なる目撃談ではなく、物理的測定の対象となっている。分光分析により、これが温度約4000ケルビンのイオン化された空気（プラズマ）であることが示唆される一方で、そのプラズマがなぜ長時間にわたり自己を維持できるのかという「閉じ込めメカニズム」が最大の謎として残っている。この現象は1メガワット以上のエネルギーを生成する可能性を秘めている。
ガリレオ・プロジェクトの重要性：ハーバード大学のアヴィ・ローブ教授が主導するこのプロジェクトは、UAP研究に前例のない科学的厳密さをもたらすことを目指している。自動化された観測ステーションとAIによるデータ分析を用い、客観的・定量的なデータを収集することで、憶測ではなく物理学に基づいた現象の解明を目指す。
意識と量子力学の統合：テオドラニ博士は、デカルト的な心身二元論を否定し、意識は物質と共存する宇宙の基本的な側面であると主張する。デヴィッド・ボームの「量子ポテンシャル」と「内蔵秩序」の概念を引用し、観測者の意識が現実の形成に関与する量子力学の奇妙さが、UAPのような現象を理解する鍵である可能性を示唆する。
先進的な仮説の提示：博士は、単なる地球外仮説（ETH）を超えた、より洗練されたモデルを提唱する。これには、特定の条件下で意識を獲得する可能性のある「プラズマ生命体」の概念や、量子真空が思考や情報を記録・伝達する宇宙規模の情報フィールド「ビッグ・ライブラリ」として機能するという壮大な仮説が含まれる。
科学界への挑戦：博士は、キャリアへの懸念から異常現象の研究を避ける主流科学界の姿勢に警鐘を鳴らす。自身のWikipediaページが削除された事件を例に挙げ、既成概念に挑戦する研究者に対する組織的な抵抗が存在することを示唆し、若い科学者に対して真実を探求する「勇気」を持つよう呼びかけている。

1. マッシモ・テオドラニ博士の経歴と研究への動機

マッシモ・テオドラニ博士は、ボローニャ大学で天文学の学位と恒星物理学の博士号を取得した北イタリアの天体物理学者である。彼のキャリアは、超新星や大質量近接連星系の研究といった主流の天体物理学から始まり、その後、太陽系外惑星探査や地球外知的生命体探査（SETI）にも関与した。

彼の異常現象への関心は、幼少期の奇妙な体験に端を発するが、その後は厳格な合理主義と懐疑主義に傾倒した科学者となった。しかし、博士号取得後に偶然古本市でジェニー・ランドルズの著書を手に取り、ノルウェーのヘスダーレンで発生する奇妙な光現象に関する記述を読んだことが転機となった。この「シンクロニシティ」が引き金となり、単なる目撃談の収集ではなく、特定の場所を「自然の実験室」として利用し、物理的な測定を行うという科学的アプローチでUAP研究に取り組むことを決意した。

2. ヘスダーレン現象：物理学的調査の最前線

ヘスダーレン現象は、テオドラニ博士の研究における中心的な事例であり、UAPに対する物理学的アプローチの有効性を示している。

現象の性質

場所：スウェーデン国境に近いノルウェー中央部の谷。1981年頃から頻繁に観測されている。
外観：球電に似ているが、サイズは10倍、持続時間も10倍長い。直径30メートルに達することもある。
特徴：多色で球形。空中で不規則に動いたり、地面から突然出現したりする。複数に分裂したり、幾何学的な形状をとることもある。
持続時間：点滅を繰り返しながら、最大で2時間持続することがある。
赤外線での存在：しばしば可視光では見えなくなるが、暗視システム（赤外線）で観測すると、その場に存在し続けていることが確認されており、その活動の多くが赤外線領域で行われていることを示唆する。

科学的分析手法

テオドラニ博士は、天文学で恒星の光を分析する手法をヘスダーレン現象に応用した。

分光分析：光のスペクトルを分析し、化学組成、温度、圧力、密度を推定する。
多波長観測：可視光、赤外線、電波（VLFからマイクロ波まで）、磁力計など、複数の機器を同時に使用し、現象を多角的に捉える。

主な発見と謎

プラズマの確認：スペクトルから酸素の輝線が検出され、現象がイオン化された空気、すなわち高温のプラズマであることが確認された。温度は約4000ケルビンと推定され、太陽の光球の温度に近い。
最大の謎「閉じ込めメカニズム」：プラズマは通常、急速に膨張・冷却して数秒で消滅するはずだが、ヘスダーレンの光球は長時間その形状を維持する。テオドラニ博士は、プラズマを外部から圧縮する「磁気的な檻」と、中心に向かって引き寄せる重力のような中心力の存在を仮定している。彼は、ミニブラックホールのような存在がプラズマを崩壊させ、その過程で局所的な磁場線が巨大に増幅される自己維持システムが働いている可能性を指摘する。
エネルギー生成：この現象は時に1メガワット以上のエネルギーを生成する。その物理を解明できれば、新たなエネルギー源としての応用が期待される。

物理学的仮説

圧電効果：地盤にかかる応力（地殻変動や、岩の割れ目に入った水が凍結する際の圧縮など）が圧電効果を引き起こし、電気が解放されることが現象の引き金になるという説。ただし、これは引き金に過ぎず、プラズマの閉じ込めという核心的な謎は説明できない。

3. ガリレオ・プロジェクト：UAP研究への新たな科学的アプローチ

テオドラニ博士が研究アフィリエイトとして参加するガリレオ・プロジェクトは、UAP研究を主流科学の領域に引き上げることを目的としている。

設立の背景と目的：ハーバード大学の天体物理学者アヴィ・ローブ教授によって設立。きっかけは、太陽系を通過した謎の天体「オウムアムア」が人工物である可能性をローブ教授が指摘したことにある。プロジェクトの目的は2つ。
1. オウムアムアのような太陽系内の異常な天体をさらに探索する。
2. 地球の空におけるUAPに対し、厳密な物理科学的手法を適用する。
方法論と技術：
- 自動観測ステーション：UAPの「ホットスポット」（例：米海軍の「チックタック」事件が報告されたカタリナ島）に、複数の観測機器（全天カメラ、望遠鏡、分光器、電波受信機、音響センサー等）を備えた観測ステーションを設置する。
- AIによる選別：人工知能（AI）を用いて、鳥、航空機、昆虫などの既知の物体をリアルタイムで識別・除外し、異常なターゲットのみを自動追跡して詳細なデータを取得する。
- データ主導のアプローチ：地球外生命体の探査を前提とせず、まずは厳密なデータを収集し、それらが何であり、何でないかを明らかにすることに重点を置く。「データのみが真実を語る」という姿勢を貫く。
科学界における意義：70年以上にわたり目撃情報に留まっていたUAP現象を、査読付き学術雑誌に掲載可能な定量的データとして扱うことを目指す、画期的な取り組みである。

4. 意識、量子力学、そして異常現象

テオドラニ博士は、UAPやその他の異常現象を理解するためには、物質だけでなく「意識」の役割を考慮に入れる必要があると強く主張する。

デカルト的二元論の超克

博士は、物質（res extensa）と精神（res cogitans）を分離したルネ・デカルトの哲学を現代科学の限界の一因と見なす。彼は、意識は物質から分離したものではなく、物質と共存する不可分の一部であると考える。

デヴィッド・ボームの思想：量子ポテンシャルと内蔵秩序

理論物理学者デヴィッド・ボームの業績は、テオドラニ博士の思想の根幹をなす。

ボームの波動関数：ボームは、量子力学の基本方程式を、通常の因果律に従う古典的な要素（物質）と、時空を超越した非局所的な要素「量子ポテンシャル」の2つを含む形で再定式化した。
船のメタファー：この概念を説明するため、テオドラニ博士は船の比喩を用いる。
- エンジン：物質的な現実。因果律に従い、空間と時間の中で変化する。これなしでは船は動けない。
- レーダー：量子ポテンシャル。船（粒子）が進むべき方向を瞬時に、非局所的に知らせる情報フィールド。意識や精神に対応する。
量子もつれ：この時空を超えた情報伝達が、量子もつれの現象の根底にあると説明される。

意識と物質の相互作用

観測者効果：量子力学が示すように、現実は観測されることによってのみ確定する。観測されていない電子は、特定の空間内の「どこにでも」存在する。これは、現実の本質が多次元的であることを示唆する。
意識と粒子の類似性：テオドラニ博士は、「意識と粒子は全く同じように振る舞う」と述べる。どちらも観測・集中されるまでは複数の可能性の状態に同時に存在している。
ペンローズ＝ハメロフ理論：意識は、脳内のマイクロチューブル（微小管）における量子もつれ状態の組織的な崩壊（Orchestrated Objective Reduction）によって生じるという理論。このモデルは、意識が発現するためには脳という物質的な身体が不可欠であることを示しており、意識と物質の不可分性を支持する。

夢と変性意識状態

多次元的意識：テオドラニ博士は、入眠時幻覚（ヒプナゴジック）や明晰夢を見ているとき、我々の意識は文字通り別の次元を体験しているのではないかと推測する。これらの体験は、しばしば現実よりも鮮明で明晰である。
注意（Attention）の役割：対談に参加したサラ・ジェーンズは、明晰夢の状態では「注意を向けたものが現実化する」と述べ、観測者の注意が現実を変化させるという量子力学の概念との類似性を指摘した。
左脳による妨害：テオドラニ博士自身は、幻覚や夢を分析しようとする左脳的な思考が働くと、その体験から「追い出されてしまう」と語る。これは、分析的な意識が、より直感的な意識状態を妨げることを示唆している。

5. 先進的仮説：プラズマ生命体と「ビッグ・ライブラリ」

テオドラニ博士は、自身の研究と洞察に基づき、2つの独創的な仮説を提唱している。

プラズマ生命体の可能性

プラズマの協調的振る舞い：デヴィッド・ボームの研究により、プラズマは個々の粒子の集合ではなく、全体として協調的に振る舞うことが示されている。
自己複製するプラズマ：ロシアとドイツの科学者による研究では、プラズマと塵埃粒子が相互作用すると、DNAのような螺旋構造を形成し、自己複製することが発見された。
知性の発現：ヘスダーレンの光球がレーザー光線に反応して点滅速度を2倍にした事例は、単なる物理的反応ではなく、知的な応答である可能性を示唆する。
仮説：脳内のマイクロチューブルが組織化された振る舞いによって意識を生み出すように、プラズマ内の粒子も特定の条件下で量子もつれ状態になり、一種の意識を獲得する可能性がある。博士は、光球とそれを観察する人間の脳波（EEG）を同時に測定し、両者の活動に同期が見られるかを検証する実験を提案している。

宇宙的情報フィールド「ビッグ・ライブラリ」

量子真空の役割：物質の99%を占める量子真空では、仮想粒子が絶えず生成と消滅を繰り返している。
情報の記録媒体：博士は、この仮想粒子の生成（アップ）と消滅（ダウン）が、情報のビットとして機能し、思考、感情、出来事といったあらゆる情報を非局所的に記録・保存する巨大な記憶装置「ビッグ・ライブラリ」を形成しているのではないか、という直感的なアイデアを提唱する。
情報のアップロードとダウンロード：我々の精神は、自らの原子内の真空を通じて、このライブラリに情報を自動的にアップロードしている。同時に、レオナルド・ダ・ヴィンチやニコラ・テスラのような天才は、このライブラリから情報をダウンロードすることで、時代を超越したアイデアを得ていた可能性がある。

6. 科学界の課題と懐疑主義との対峙

テオドラニ博士は、自身の研究を通じて直面した科学界の保守性や抵抗について率直に語る。

主流科学の閉鎖性：多くの科学者が異常現象の研究を避けるのは、それが実験室で再現できず、データを取得しにくいため、「出版か死か（publish or perish）」という学術界の原則においてキャリア上のリスクとなるからだと指摘する。
Wikipediaを巡る論争：博士がガリレオ・プロジェクトへの参加を発表した3日後、10年間存在していた彼のWikipediaページが「重要性がない」として削除の対象となった。博士は、これを科学的方法論を正しく理解しない「過激な懐疑主義者」による攻撃だと見なしている。彼らは科学を柔軟な探求の道具としてではなく、硬直した信仰体系として扱っており、その基盤を揺るがしかねない研究を恐れていると分析する。
未来の科学者への提言：博士は、若い研究者たちに対し、キャリア形成への衝動と真実探求への衝動のバランスを取るよう促す。彼は、既存の物理学は間違っているのではなく「不完全」であるとし、心を開きつつもガリレオ以来の厳密な科学的手法を用いて、未知の領域を探求する「勇気」を持つことが重要だと強調している。

デヴィッド・ボームの量子論が意識と異常現象に与える影響：マッシモ・テオドラニ博士の洞察に基づく理論的考察

序論：物理学と意識の新たな地平

量子物理学と意識研究の融合は、現代科学における最も挑戦的かつ深遠なフロンティアの一つです。この学際的な領域は、現実の根源的な性質、そしてその中で我々の主観的経験が占める位置について、根本的な問いを投げかけます。本稿は、著名な天体物理学者であるマッシモ・テオドラニ博士の洞察を羅針盤とし、理論物理学者デヴィッド・ボームが提唱した量子論が、この難解な領域に如何なる光を投じるかを探求するものです。ボームの思想は、単なる物理現象の記述に留まらず、宇宙、物質、そして精神を一つの連続した全体として捉える壮大な存在論を提示します。

本稿の主目的は、ボームの「内蔵秩序（Implicate Order）」と「量子ポテンシャル」という核心的概念が、意識、現実の構造、そしてUAP（未確認航空現象）に代表される未解明の現象群を理解するための、統一的な理論的枠組みをいかに提供しうるかを考察することにあります。議論の構成として、まず第1章で、ヘスダーレンの光球現象のような物理的に不可解な観測データを「経験的問題」として提示し、既存の物理学の限界を浮き彫りにします。続く第2章では、科学の根底にある精神と物質の二元論的思考の限界を指摘し、ボームの理論がそれを超克する可能性を示します。第3章ではボーム理論の核心である量子ポテンシャルと内蔵秩序の概念を詳述し、第4章でこれらの概念を意識、情報、そして異常現象の解明へと具体的に応用する試みを探ります。最終的に、本稿はボームとテオドラニ博士の思想が拓く、統合的科学への展望を提示することで締めくくられます。

第1章：経験的問題としての異常現象 ― ヘスダーレン現象の物理的謎

既知の物理法則の枠内では説明が困難な、厳密に観測されたデータこそが、新たな科学理論の誕生を促す強力な触媒となります。本章では、マッシモ・テオドラニ博士が科学調査に深く関与したノルウェーのヘスダーレンで観測される光球現象を具体的な事例として取り上げます。この現象は、従来の物理学の枠組みでは捉えきれない物理的特性を示しており、我々の物質観そのものに再考を迫る経験的問題提起としての戦略的価値を持っています。

ヘスダーレン現象の物理的特徴

テオドラニ博士が率いた調査プロジェクトで得られたデータは、この現象が単なる大気現象や見間違いでは片付けられない、複雑な物理的実体であることを示唆しています。その主な特徴は以下の通りです。

規模と持続時間: 光球は直径が最大で30メートルにも達し、出現から消滅までの持続時間は、点いたり消えたりしながら最長で2時間に及ぶことがあります。これは、プラズマ現象として知られる球電（ボールライトニング）の規模と寿命を遥かに凌駕します。
不可解な振る舞い: 現象は空中に突如として出現し、ランダムかつ不規則に移動します。時には複数の部分に分裂したり、球体から幾何学的な形状へと変化したりする様子も観測されています。
特異な分光学的特徴: 分光観測からは、二つの異なる、しかし共に不可解な結果が得られています。一つは、スペクトル線が全く観測されない連続スペクトルで、これはガスが完全にイオン化している状態を示唆します。もう一つは、イオン化した大気（特に酸素）の輝線スペクトルが観測されるケースで、これによりプラズマの温度が約4000ケルビンという、太陽の光球表面とそう変わらない高温であることが算出されました。
広範な電磁的特性: この現象は、我々が視認できる可視光の帯域だけでなく、赤外線や電波といった、より広い波長の電磁波を放射しています。特筆すべきは、肉眼では見えなくなった後も、赤外線カメラではその存在が確認され続ける場合があることで、これは現象がその「生涯」の多くを赤外線領域で過ごしている可能性を示唆します。

現象解明における物理学的な課題

テオドラニ博士が指摘する最大の謎は、‌‌「プラズマの閉じ込めメカニズム」‌‌です。4000ケルビンもの高温プラズマは、物理法則に従えば瞬時に周囲の大気中に拡散し、冷却され、消滅するはずです。しかし、ヘスダーレンの光球は、なぜか長時間にわたって自己完結的な球体を維持し続けます。この物理的な矛盾を説明するため、博士はいくつかの仮説を提示しますが、いずれも未解決の課題です。例えば、プラズマを外部から圧縮する「磁気的な籠」のような構造の存在や、プラズマを内部から引きつける重力源としての「ミニブラックホール」の可能性などが考えられますが、現時点では推測の域を出ません。

これらの物理的に不可解な現象は、時に観測者の意識と相互作用しているかのような振る舞いを見せることもあり、我々を物質と精神を分離して考えるデカルト的な世界観の根本的な見直しへと導くのです。

第2章：デカルト的二元論の限界と量子論的代替案

現代科学の思想的基盤には、ルネ・デカルトが提唱した、精神（res cogitans）と物質（res extensa）を明確に分離する二元論が深く根付いています。この世界観は、客観的で測定可能な物質世界を探求する上で絶大な成功を収めてきました。しかし、意識と物質が不可分に絡み合っているように見える現象、例えば本稿で取り上げる異常現象などを理解しようとする際、この二元論は深刻な概念的障壁となります。本章では、この障壁を乗り越えるための理論的基盤として、デヴィッド・ボームの思想がいかに決定的な重要性を持つかを論じます。

UAP現象における「共同創造効果」

テオドラニ博士は、UAP現象の目撃事例を分析する中で、物理的観測に留まらない複雑な相互作用の可能性に言及します。それは、スーザン・デメター氏やグレッグ・ビショップ氏のような「新しいUFO研究者」が提唱する‌‌「共同創造効果（co-creation effect）」‌‌という仮説です。これは目撃者の意識状態が、現象の現れ方そのものに関与しているように見えるというもので、博士は自身の専門分野ではないとしつつも、強く魅了されていると語ります。物理学者である博士がこの非物理学的な概念に惹かれるのは、物理現象の完全な記述には、観測者の意識という変数を無視できないという、量子論の観測問題とも通底する直観の現れではないでしょうか。この視点は、現象を外部に存在する客観的な「物体」としてのみ捉えるのではなく、観察する主観的な「精神」との相互作用の中で立ち現れるプロセスとして捉えることを要請します。

デヴィッド・ボームの理論がもたらす統合的視点

このデカルト的二元論を超える可能性を秘めているのが、デヴィッド・ボームが再定式化した量子論です。テオドラニ博士の解説によれば、ボームが導き出した波動関数の方程式は、その構造自体に二つの異なる性質の項を本質的に含んでいます。一つは、我々がよく知る古典物理学的な項であり、因果律に従い、時空間の中で振る舞う「物質」の側面を記述します。そしてもう一つが、時空の制約を超越し、非局所的（non-local）な相関を生み出す項です。この後者の項こそが、量子もつれのような不可思議な現象の根源となります。

ボームの理論は、精神と物質を分断された二つの実体として扱うのではなく、一つの根源的な現実が持つ、異なる二つの側面として統合的に扱うための数学的・概念的枠組みを提供します。これにより、「共同創造効果」のような現象も、精神という非局所的な側面と、物質という局所的な側面が相互に影響を及し合うプロセスとして理解する道が拓かれます。

このようにして提示されたボームの統合的枠組みの核心には、「量子ポテンシャル」と「内蔵秩序」という、彼の思想を特徴づける独創的な概念が存在するのです。

第3章：デヴィッド・ボームの存在論的枠組み ― 量子ポテンシャルと内蔵秩序

デヴィッド・ボームの量子論は、単に実験結果を予測するための計算ツールに留まりません。それは、現実世界の根源的な性質と構造を記述しようとする、深遠な存在論です。本章では、彼の理論の中核をなし、物質と精神の統合を示唆する二つの鍵概念、「量子ポテンシャル」と、それが指し示す「内蔵秩序」を深く掘り下げ、それらが我々の現実認識をいかに根本から再描画するかを明らかにします。

「量子ポテンシャル」：物質に内在する情報場

ボーム理論の最も独創的な要素は「量子ポテンシャル」の導入です。これは古典的な力とは全く異なり、粒子に「情報」を能動的に与える場として機能します。テオドラニ博士は、この難解な概念を鮮やかな比喩を用いて解説しています。

船とレーダーの比喩: 宇宙を進む粒子を「船」に喩えます。船を前進させる物理的な力、すなわち「エンジン」は、因果律に従う古典的な現実に対応します。一方で、船が進むべき航路を瞬時に、そして全体的な状況を把握して知らせるのが「レーダー」です。このレーダーこそが量子ポテンシャルであり、時空を超えて船の振る舞いを導く非局所的な情報源なのです。
情報の役割: 量子ポテンシャルは、宇宙に遍在する「電信設備」のように機能します。それは、宇宙の全粒子に対して、非局所的かつ同期的に「情報」を送り、その振る舞いを組織化します。粒子間の距離に関わらず、情報は瞬時に伝達され、全体としての調和を生み出します。
物質に内在する精神: テオドラニ博士は、この量子ポテンシャルこそが「物質の内部にある精神」であると看破します。例えば、原子内で電子がパウリの排他原理に従って整然と配置されるのは、単なる偶然や盲目的な法則の結果ではありません。それは、量子ポテンシャルという根源的な知性がもたらす、同期的で秩序だった振る舞いなのです。博士は「私は神を信じているわけではないが、ここには多くの知性が存在すると感じている」と述べ、この根源的秩序への畏敬の念を示します。ここに、物質が不活性な存在ではなく、情報を内包し、知性的な秩序に従う能動的な存在であるという、革命的な世界観が示されています。

「内蔵秩序」と「展開秩序」：ホログラムとしての宇宙

量子ポテンシャルは、どこから情報を得ているのでしょうか。その答えが、ボームのもう一つの核心概念である「内蔵秩序（Implicate Order）」と「展開秩序（Explicate Order）」の関係性にあります。

テオドラニ博士が指摘するように、ボームは宇宙の全体性（wholeness）をホログラムの比喩で説明しました。我々が日常的に経験し、物理学が記述する時空間内の現実は‌‌「展開秩序」と呼ばれます。これは、あたかもホログラム写真の一部分に過ぎません。その背後には、より根源的で、全体が全ての部分に折り畳まれるように含まれている、非局所的な現実が存在します。これが「内蔵秩序」‌‌です。

この三者の関係性は、音楽の比喩でより動的に理解できます。「内蔵秩序」が楽譜全体だとすれば、「展開秩序」は今この瞬間に演奏されている一つの音符に相当します。そして「量子ポテンシャル」は、楽譜全体の調和を考慮しながら、その音符をどう演奏すべきかを瞬時に伝える指揮者のタクトのようなものです。量子ポテンシャルは、この根源的な「内蔵秩序」から、我々が観測する「展開秩序」へと情報を伝える媒体として機能するのです。

この深遠な現実像は、これまで科学の対象外とされてきた意識や、物理法則の例外と見なされてきた異常現象に対して、具体的で検証可能な応用と、理論的拡張の可能性を開くものです。

第4章：ボーム理論の応用と speculative extensions

いかなる科学理論の真価も、それが具体的な問題に対してどれだけ新たな洞察をもたらし、検証可能な仮説を提供できるかによって測られます。デヴィッド・ボームの理論的枠組みは、その哲学的深遠さだけでなく、具体的な現象を再解釈するための強力なツールとなり得ます。本章では、この枠組みを意識、情報、そして異常現象という三つの異なる、しかし根源で繋がる領域に応用し、その説明力と未来的な研究の可能性を評価します。

4.1 意識の量子的解釈

ボーム理論と意識の構造的類似性

テオドラニ博士は、「意識と素粒子は全く同じように振る舞うように見える」という驚くべき洞察を提示します。観測される前の電子が、特定の場所に存在するのではなく、可能性の雲として多次元的に広がっているように、我々の意識もまた、特に夢や変性意識状態において、日常の物理的現実とは異なる時空間の次元を同時に経験している可能性があります。この類似性は、意識と物質が、内蔵秩序という同じ源から展開される異なる側面であるというボームの思想と深く共鳴します。

ペンローズ＝ハメロフモデルとの統合

この思索をより具体的な物理モデルと結びつけるのが、ロジャー・ペンローズとスチュワート・ハメロフが提唱した「Orch-OR理論」です。このモデルは、脳内の神経細胞に存在するマイクロチューブル（微小管）という構造内で起こる量子的効果が、意識的な経験を生み出すと主張します。ボームの枠組みを適用するならば、マイクロチューブルは、非局所的な情報場である「内蔵秩序」からの情報を受け取り、それを我々の主観的な「意識体験」（展開秩序）へと変換・展開するためのアンテナとして機能している、と解釈できます。しかし、この統合はさらに深いレベルで考察されねばなりません。テオドラニ博士が「意識は身体（物質）なしには存在し得ない」と強調するように、「内蔵秩序」という純粋な情報ポテンシャルが、マイクロチューブルという特定の時空間的構造（展開秩序）を得て初めて「主観的経験」という現象として自己を認識するのです。物質は意識の乗り物であると同時に、意識が意識として立ち現れるための必須条件なのである、と言えるでしょう。

4.2 「ビッグ・ライブラリ」仮説 ― 量子真空情報場

テオドラニ博士は、ボーム理論に触発され、宇宙の情報処理メカニズムに関する直観的かつ壮大な仮説‌‌「ビッグ・ライブラリ」‌‌を提唱します。

仮説の概要

メカニズム: 物質の99%を占める量子真空では、仮想粒子が絶えず生成と消滅を繰り返しています。この生成（particle up）と消滅（particle down）を、コンピュータの「1」と「0」の情報ビットと見なします。
機能: この量子真空の情報場は、宇宙規模の巨大な記憶装置として機能します。我々の思考、感情、経験といった情報は、我々自身の身体を構成する原子内の真空を通じて、この情報場に非局所的に「アップロード」されます。同様に、必要な情報がこの「ビッグ・ライブラリ」から「ダウンロード」されることもあり得ます。
含意: このメカニズムは、これまで科学的説明が困難であった現象に物理的基盤を与える可能性があります。ニコラ・テスラのような天才が示す驚異的なひらめき、カール・ユングが提唱した集合的無意識、あるいは日常的な直観といった現象は、この宇宙規模の情報場との無意識的な交信の結果であるかもしれません。

宇宙に「意味」を与える可能性

この仮説は、現代科学がしばしば見過ごしてきた「意味」という概念に、物理学的な座席を与えます。もし宇宙が情報を蓄積し、共有する巨大なライブラリであるならば、宇宙の進化は単なる偶然と淘汰の産物ではなく、意識が経験を通じて情報を蓄積し、学び、進化していくための、ある種の目的論的なプロセスである可能性が示唆されます。

4.3 異常現象の再解釈

UAPとヘスダーレン現象の新たな視点

ボームの枠組みは、UAPやヘスダーレンの光球現象を、根本的に新しい視点から捉え直すことを可能にします。これらの現象は、地球外から飛来した「乗り物」や未知の「自然現象」といった従来のカテゴリーに収まらない、より深遠な存在かもしれません。すなわち、それらは‌‌「内蔵秩序」という情報場から、我々の「展開秩序」へと一時的に姿を現した、情報と物質が高度に絡み合った存在‌‌である可能性があります。観測者の意識が現象の振る舞いに影響を与える「共同創造効果」は、この内蔵秩序から展開秩序への「展開」のプロセス自体に、意識が能動的に関与していることを強く示唆しています。

「プラズマ生命体」仮説の論理的構築

テオドラニ博士は、複数の科学的知見を統合し、より具体的な「プラズマ生命体」という仮説を展開します。

ボームのプラズマ研究: ボーム自身の博士論文の研究対象であったプラズマは、個々の粒子がバラバラに動くのではなく、全体として一つの生命体のように振る舞う協同的性質を持つことを示していました。
近年の物理学研究: 近年の研究では、特定の条件下でプラズマがDNAのような二重螺旋構造を形成し、自己複製する能力を持つことが理論的・実験的に示されています。
観測事実: 1984年のヘスダーレンでの実験では、研究者が光球にレーザー光を照射したところ、光球がその脈動の周期を正確に倍加させるという反応を9回中8回示しました。これは、外部からの刺激に対する能動的な応答と解釈できます。

これらの知見を組み合わせると、ヘスダーレンの光球のような現象が、ある種の原始的な意識や知性を宿した「プラズマ生命体」であるという仮説が、単なるSF的な空想ではなく、科学的探求の対象として浮かび上がってきます。

検証可能な未来の実験

この仮説を検証するため、テオドラニ博士は画期的な実験計画を提案します。それは、光球現象の物理的パラメータ（光度変化、スペクトルなど）と、それを見つめる人間の脳波（EEG）を、高精度で同時に測定するというものです。もし、光球の振る舞いの変化と、観測者の脳波パターンとの間に統計的に有意な同期（相関）が見出されれば、それは意識とプラズマ現象との間に直接的な情報伝達が存在する、極めて強力な科学的証拠となります。この発見は、ボーム理論の正当性を劇的に支持するものとなるでしょう。

ボームの理論が提供するこの壮大なビジョンは、科学が今後進むべき道、すなわち、未知の領域に臆することなく、厳密な方法論と開かれた精神性を兼ね備えた探求の姿勢を我々に求めているのです。

結論：統合的科学への展望

本稿は、天体物理学者マッシモ・テオドラニ博士の鋭い洞察を導きとして、デヴィッド・ボームの量子論が現代科学の最も深遠な謎―意識と物質の関係―に如何に光を当てるかを探求してきました。ボームの理論は、物質と精神を分断するデカルト的二元論を超克し、両者を一つの根源的現実の異なる側面として捉える、非二元論的な統合的枠組みを提供します。その核心にある「量子ポテンシャル」と「内蔵秩序」という概念は、これまで別々の謎として扱われてきた意識、情報、そして異常現象を統一的な視点から理解するための鍵となります。

本稿の中心的なテーゼは、これらの現象がそれぞれ独立した不可解なパズルなのではなく、すべてがより深く、情報に満ちた根源的現実（内蔵秩序）の、多様な現れ（展開秩序）であるというものです。意識体験は脳という物理的構造を通して内蔵秩序の情報が展開された姿であり、異常現象は、その展開プロセスが我々の日常的な物理法則の理解を超える形で顕現した姿なのかもしれません。テオドラニ博士が提案する脳波と物理現象の同時測定実験は、この仮説を検証する画期的な試みであり、成功すれば主観と客観の二元論を前提とした科学のあり方に根本的な変革を迫るでしょう。

未来の科学に求められる姿勢について、テオドラニ博士の言葉は力強い指針を与えてくれます。「科学者に必要なのは、さらなる厳密さではない。我々はすでにそれを持っている。必要なのは勇気だ」。彼はまた、科学者が二つの衝動の間で葛藤すると指摘します。「一つは学術界でキャリアを築こうとする衝動。もう一つは真実に近づこうとする衝動」。真理の探究には、この葛藤を乗り越える勇気が不可欠です。そしてその探求は、微視的な詳細分析と、全体を俯瞰する巨視的な統合とを自在に行き来する、しなやかな知性によって導かれなければなりません。

開かれた心と厳密な方法論。この二つを両輪として駆動される勇気ある探求こそが、物質と精神の間の深淵に橋を架け、次なる科学革命への道を開くと、我々は結論します。

UAP/Hessdalen 現象の研究

マッシモ・テオドラニ博士との対談のより大きな文脈において、これらのソースはUAP（未確認航空現象）やヘスダーレン現象の研究について、定量的かつ科学的なアプローチの必要性を強調しつつ、従来の物理学の枠を超えた現象、特にプラズマ生命体や意識との関連性について探求しています。

対談のより大きな文脈：意識と量子力学

テオドラニ博士は、北イタリアの宇宙物理学者であり、量子力学および宇宙物理学の専門家です。彼と聞き手であるアンソニー・ピークの対談の主な焦点は、量子力学の微細な点、その意味合い、意識、そして急進的な懐疑論者の手による苦難といった広範なテーマに及びます。

テオドラニ博士がUAP研究に興味を持ったきっかけは、彼の幼少期の「奇妙な経験」と、その後に起こった「シンクロニシティ」でした。科学の「司祭」として極度に懐疑的であった博士は、モデナの古本市で偶然見つけた本に「ヘスダーレン（S. Darlin）」という、ノルウェーの奇妙な光現象が頻繁に発生する場所についての記述を見つけ、それが研究への引き金となりました。

博士にとって、目撃証言を読むだけの従来のUFO研究は「退屈」であり、ヘスダーレンは‌‌「測定を試みることができる研究所領域」‌‌として利用できる特定の場所でした。この文脈全体を通して、博士はUAP/ヘスダーレン現象を、意識や非局所性（non-locality）といった量子の概念が関与する、より広範な現実の一部として捉えています。

UAP/ヘスダーレン現象の研究

ヘスダーレン現象は、特に1981年以降、ノルウェー中央部の谷で頻繁に発生している「奇妙な光現象」です。

‌‌現象の特徴：‌‌

球電（ボールライトニング）に似ていますが、サイズが10倍大きく、持続時間も10倍（時には最長2時間）長い。
多色で球状、空中で不規則にジャンプしたり、突然地面に出現したりする。
いくつかに分裂したり、幾何学的な形状を帯びたりすることがある。

‌‌科学的アプローチ（天文学的手法の適用）：‌‌ テオドラニ博士は、この現象が光学から紫外線、そして電波に至るまでの電磁放射を放出しているため、‌‌天文学で恒星の光を測定するのと同じ物理学を適用できる‌‌と説明します。

‌‌分光法（Spectrography）：‌‌放出される光のスペクトルを分析することで、放出される光の量、波長範囲、色、およびスペクトル線の有無を調べます。
‌‌分析結果：‌‌
- スペクトル線が全くない場合があり、これはガスが完全にイオン化されている（自由なイオンと電子がある）ことを示唆します。
- 酸素の輝線が見られる場合があり、これは励起プロセス（プラズマ）であることを確認し、‌‌約4,000ケルビン‌‌という高い温度（太陽の光球に近い）を推定できます。
- 一部のスペクトルは、自然現象としては奇妙な「LEDライト」のように見えることがあります。
‌‌マルチインスツルメント測定：‌‌現象を包括的に理解するためには、磁力計、無線スペクトロメーター、光学機器、および赤外線装置など、複数の機器を同時に使用する必要があります。
‌‌赤外線現象：‌‌この現象は、その「生涯のほとんど」を赤外線領域で過ごす傾向があり、肉眼では見えなくても暗視システムでは検出され続けることがあります。

‌‌現象の謎と理論：‌‌ ヘスダーレン現象の最大の物理学的謎は、プラズマを長時間（最大2時間）自己完結させる‌‌「閉じ込めメカニズム」‌‌です。通常、プラズマはすぐに膨張し、冷えてしまい、10秒以上持続することはありません。

‌‌誘発メカニズム（トリガー）：‌‌地盤の動きや地震活動による‌‌圧電効果（Piezoelectric effect）‌‌がトリガーとなる可能性が指摘されています。特にヘスダーレンでは、古い鉱山に浸入した水が冬に凍結し、岩石を圧縮することで圧電効果が発生するという、合理的な理論があります。
‌‌閉じ込めメカニズム：‌‌プラズマを外部から圧縮する一種の‌‌磁気ケージ‌‌の存在が考えられています。これは、プラズマを中央に引き寄せる重力のような中心力（例えば‌‌ミニブラックホール‌‌のようなもの）と組み合わさっている可能性があり、磁場が増幅される自己供給システムを形成しているかもしれません。

‌‌UAP研究の未来：ガリレオ・プロジェクト‌‌ テオドラニ博士は、ハーバード大学の宇宙物理学者アヴィ・ローブ教授が立ち上げた‌‌ガリレオ・プロジェクト‌‌に参加しています。このプロジェクトの目標は、目撃証言のみに頼るのではなく、‌‌厳密で定量的な科学的手法‌‌を用いてUAPのデータを取得し、その性質を解明することです。

‌‌自動観測システム：‌‌博士が過去に行った現場調査は夜間監視の形で行われていましたが、ガリレオ・プロジェクトでは、自動的にデータを取り続けるマルチインスツルメントの観測ステーションが導入されます。
‌‌人工知能（AI）：‌‌このシステムはAIを使用して光を診断し、鳥や飛行機などの既知の物体と、研究対象としたい未確認の現象を区別します。
‌‌ホットスポットでの展開：‌‌これらのステーションは、有名な「ティクタク事件」が起きたカタリーナ島のようなUAPの「ホットスポット」に設置される予定です。

より深い考察：プラズマと意識の関連性

対談の後半で、ヘスダーレン現象の研究は、従来のUAP研究の枠を超え、意識と物質の関係というより大きな文脈へと繋がります。

‌‌プラズマ生命体の可能性：‌‌

デヴィッド・ボームの研究によれば、プラズマは単なる粒子の集まりではなく、全体として振る舞う特性（ホール：hole）を持っています。
一部の科学者は、プラズマ（プラズモン）が量子もつれ（quantum entanglement）の特性を示すことを発見しています。
さらに、プラズマ中の電子やイオンと塵粒子が相互作用すると、DNAのような‌‌らせん構造‌‌を形成し、DNAのように‌‌自己複製‌‌できることが示唆されています。
テオドラニ博士は、プラズマが協調的な振る舞いを示すこと、そしてヘスダーレンの光がレーザービームによる刺激に対して‌‌パルス率を倍増させる‌‌という反応を示した事実（1984年の実験）を踏まえ、プラズマが特定の条件下で‌‌意識の一形態を獲得する‌‌可能性があると考察しています。

‌‌意識との相互作用の検証：‌‌ 博士は、光の現象と人間の意識との間に通信がある可能性を科学的に証明するための具体的な実験計画を提案しています。

UAPの光のパラメータ（測光、分光）を測定しつつ、同時に、それを見ている人物の脳波（アルファ波、ベータ波、シータ波）をEEGで測定する。
UAPの光や色の変化が、脳波のピークの変化と同期しているかどうかを調べることで、‌‌両者間のコミュニケーション‌‌を定量的に実証できるかもしれないと述べています。

この研究は、UAP/ヘスダーレン現象を単なる奇妙な自然現象としてではなく、物質と意識が分離されていないという「非二元論的な」視点（デカルト哲学が否定したもの）の中で、‌‌プラズマが代替の生命体、あるいは高度な知性‌‌として機能している可能性を探る試みとして位置づけられます。

科学界への挑戦

テオドラニ博士は、UAP現象の研究が「キャリアのためには良くない」（publish or perish）と見なされる傾向を批判しつつも、科学者には「真実」を追求する勇気が必要だと主張しています。彼は、既存の物理学は完璧であるが、「完全性」の点で不足しており、UAP現象を測定するために‌‌ガリレオ的な方法論‌‌を用いることで、科学知識を補完することができると強調しています。

変性意識状態

この対談のソースは、‌‌意識、量子力学、宇宙論‌‌のより大きな文脈において、‌‌変性意識状態（Altered States of Consciousness, ASC）‌‌を、単なる心理現象としてではなく、‌‌多次元的な現実へのアクセスや、物質と意識が分離されていないという非二元論的な宇宙観‌‌を裏付ける重要な現象として捉えています。

テオドラニ博士と聞き手のアンソニー・ピーク、サラ・ジェーンズは、夢や催眠状態といった変性意識状態を量子力学の概念を用いて解釈し、それが宇宙の根本的な構造とどのように関連しているかを探求しています。

1. 変性意識状態（ASC）と多次元的な現実

テオドラニ博士の主な見解は、量子力学の解釈に基づき、意識が文字通り‌‌多次元的な現実‌‌に同時に存在している可能性がある、というものです。

‌‌波束の収縮（Wave Function Collapse）との類推:‌‌ 量子力学アンソニー・ピーク、サラ・ジェーンズは、夢や催眠状態といった変性意識状態を量子力学の概念を用いて解釈し、それが宇宙の根本的な構造とどのように関連しているかを探求しています。

1. 変性意識状態（ASC）と多次元的な現実

‌‌波束の収縮（Wave Function Collapse）との類推:‌‌ 量子力学によれば、観察されていない原子は特定のボリューム内で「どこにでも存在しうる」とされています。私たちが原子を観測する瞬間（波束の収縮）に、私たちは一つの現実しか観察しませんが、同時に他の可能性も並行する現実に収縮している可能性があります（ヒュー・エヴェレット・ジュニアの多世界解釈）。
‌‌意識の多次元性:‌‌ この量子力学的な現実の多次元性（multidimensionality）の概念を意識に適用すると、‌‌私たちの意識も異なる次元に同時に存在している‌‌と考えられます。
‌‌夢とASC:‌‌ 特に、‌‌夢を見ているとき‌‌、‌‌明晰夢（lucid dreams）‌‌、あるいは‌‌入眠時幻覚（hypnagogic visions）‌‌や‌‌入眠後幻覚（hypnopompic visions）‌‌といった変性意識状態にあるとき、私たちの意識がどこへ行っているのかという疑問が生じます。
‌‌現実を超える明晰さ:‌‌ これらの幻視は、‌‌「現実そのものよりも遥かに明晰」‌‌であり、詳細に富んでいるため、単なる日中の経験の処理ではないと考えられます。
‌‌意識と粒子の類似性:‌‌ 博士は、‌‌意識と素粒子（particles）が全く同じように振る舞っているように見える‌‌と結論づけています。観測されていない電子が複数の空間に同時に存在するように、私たちの意識も異なる次元に同時に存在している可能性があるのです。

2. 明晰夢と入眠時幻覚（Hypnagogia）の体験的検証

共同の参加者であるサラ・ジェーンズは、‌‌明晰夢と入眠時幻覚‌‌の個人的な体験を通して、この多次元的な視点を裏付けています。

‌‌創造的なプロセスへの気づき:‌‌ 明晰夢は、‌‌創造的なプロセスと量子もつれ（entanglement）に気づく‌‌という考えを強く検証するものです。
‌‌よりリアルな感覚:‌‌ 彼女は明晰夢の状態を‌‌「現実よりもリアルに感じる」‌‌と述べており、目覚めている状態と眠っている状態、そして夢を見ている状態が融合したハイブリッドな意識状態（full brain experience of consciousness）であると説明しています。
‌‌注意（Attention）の役割:‌‌ 入眠時幻覚の状態では、‌‌注意を向けること‌‌が現象を変化させる重要な要素であることが示唆されています。特定の何かに焦点を合わせすぎるとその状態から覚めてしまう一方、より深い段階では注意を向けるとそれが現実の層を構築し、明晰夢の中で現実の物体として現れます。この「注意」の働きは、量子力学における‌‌観測行為が現実を決定する‌‌という考え方（二重スリット実験など）に通じるものがあります。

3. 量子力学的な概念との結びつき

変性意識状態の背後には、意識と物質が分かれていないという非二元論的な哲学と、量子力学的な非局所性が関わっていると説明されています。

‌‌デカルト二元論の否定:‌‌ テオドラニ博士は、現実を物質（res extensa）と精神（res cogitans）に分けたルネ・デカルトのカルテジアン哲学が、意識の統合的な理解を妨げてきたと指摘します。
‌‌デヴィッド・ボームの理論:‌‌ 物理学者デヴィッド・ボームの量子力学の波束関数の方程式は、‌‌因果的な古典的要因‌‌と、‌‌空間と時間から独立した（非局所的な）要因‌‌の二つの要素が現実を構成していることを示しています。非局所的な要因こそが量子もつれの原因であり、意識と物質が分離されていない状態を示唆します。
‌‌テレパシーと量子もつれ:‌‌ 博士は、テレパシーのような意識が体験する現象を、‌‌「質的な量子もつれ（entanglement）」‌‌と見なすことができると示唆しており、私たちの心が異なる次元に同時に存在する能力を持つかもしれないと考察しています。
‌‌意識と「ビッグ・ライブラリー」:‌‌ 博士の「ビッグ・ライブラリー」の概念は、変性意識状態を通じて情報にアクセスできる可能性を示しています。これは、宇宙の‌‌量子真空（quantum vacuum）‌‌に、思考や感情、事実などの情報が非局所的に記憶されているという直感的なモデルです。
- この情報は、原子のヴォイド（真空）を介して私たちの心から自動的にアップロード・ダウンロードされ、‌‌私たちは常に学習している‌‌が、普段はそのことに気づいていないとしています。
- 夢や幻視は、この‌‌「ビッグ・ライブラリー」から情報をキャッチしている‌‌瞬間かもしれません。特にレオナルドやニコラ・テスラのような天才は、この情報への窓を常に開いており、アイデアを瞬時にダウンロードしていると説明されます。

結論として、これらのソースは、変性意識状態を、私たちが日常的に知覚している因果的で古典的な現実を超えた、‌‌宇宙全体にエンタングル（もつれ）た、より深く、より情報に満ちた（非局所的な）現実‌‌を垣間見ることができる状態として位置づけています。

ペンローズ・ハメロフ理論

提示されたソースにおいて、マッシモ・テオドラニ博士は、ペンローズ・ハメロフ理論（Orchestrated Objective Reduction, Orch OR）を、‌‌意識と物質が切り離されていない‌‌という非二元論的な宇宙観を裏付ける、重要な量子脳モデルの一つとして言及しています。

この理論は、意識、量子力学、宇宙論というより大きな文脈の中で、‌‌意識の発生には物理的な基盤（物質）が必要不可欠である‌‌という考えを補強するために使用されています。

以下に、ソースがOrch OR理論について言及している内容を説明します。

1. Orch OR理論の基本概念

テオドラニ博士は、意識の発生に関するペンローズとハメロフのモデルを、デヴィッド・ボームの量子論の解釈と結びつけて説明しています。

‌‌量子脳と意識の瞬間:‌‌ Orch OR理論は、脳内のニューロンにある‌‌微小管（microtubules）‌‌が関与する量子効果を用いて意識を説明します。
‌‌コヒーレントな協調的振る舞い:‌‌ 意識の瞬間（consciousness moment）が生じるためには、通常‌‌10億個の微小管‌‌が一種のコヒーレントなオーケストラ（coherent orchestra）のように量子もつれ（entanglement）の状態になる必要があるとされています。
‌‌波束の収縮（Objective Reduction）:‌‌ この微小管の集合体が「収縮（collapse）」するときに、意識の瞬間が発生します。

2. 物質と意識の非二元性（Non-Duality）の証明

博士は、Orch OR理論を引用して、‌‌意識は物質と共存している‌‌という非二元論的な視点（ルネ・デカルトの二元論哲学を否定するもの）を強調しています。

‌‌身体の必要性:‌‌ テオドラニ博士は、ペンローズ・ハメロフのモデルによれば、‌‌脳が身体の一部である限り、意識を持つためには身体が必要である‌‌と述べています。微小管がなければ、意識の瞬間は発生し得ません。
‌‌物質の存在意義:‌‌ 意識の瞬間を可能にする「物質」（この場合は微小管）が存在しなければ、意識は発現できません。このことは、物質とエネルギーの形をとる宇宙が存在する‌‌「意味（meaning）」‌‌そのものであると博士は考察しています。意識のみで構成された宇宙（例えば、天使がトランペットを吹き鳴らすようなイメージ）は、博士にとって「ナンセンス」であるとしています。
‌‌相互依存関係:‌‌ アンソニー・ピークは、この博士の指摘を受けて、Orch OR理論が「量子効果を使って意識を引き出す」が、‌‌「それを引き出すためには物理的な効果が依然として必要である」‌‌という考え方を強調しています。これは、思考（意識）と物質（身体）が相互に関係し、互いに必要としているという非二元的な見解です。

3. Orch OR理論をめぐる科学的論争

博士は、この理論が成長しつつあるにもかかわらず、‌‌論争の的になっている‌‌ことも認めています。特に、マックス・テグマークによる批判に触れ、この論争を詳細に掘り下げています。

‌‌テグマークの「熱くて湿っている」批判:‌‌ 物理学者のマックス・テグマークは、脳内は‌‌「熱くて湿っている（too hot and wet）」‌‌ため、微小管のような微小な構造内で量子もつれを十分に長い時間（意識の瞬間を発生させるのに必要な時間）維持することは不可能であると主張しています。量子コヒーレンスは外部環境との相互作用によりすぐに崩壊（デコヒーレンス）してしまうため、この環境は量子効果を維持するのに適していないという懸念です。
‌‌ハメロフによる反論:‌‌ テオドラニ博士は、テグマークが神経生理学者ではないことを指摘し、‌‌スチュアート・ハメロフこそが、この問題について発言すべき人物である‌‌と強調します。ハメロフは、微小管の周囲に存在する‌‌「ゲル状の物質（gel-like substance）」‌‌が、微小管を外部環境から隔離する役割を果たし、量子もつれを発生させるのに十分な時間、コヒーレンスを維持できると主張しています。
‌‌量子物理学者の権威:‌‌ アンソニー・ピークは、テグマークが多世界解釈の支持者であるにもかかわらずOrch OR理論に異論を唱えているのは興味深いとしつつ、ロジャー・ペンローズがノーベル物理学賞を受賞したことを引き合いに出し、彼の理論が「でたらめ」ではないことを示唆しています。

総じて、ソースはペンローズ・ハメロフ理論を、‌‌意識が物理的な身体システム（微小管）を通じて宇宙の非局所的・非時間的な側面（量子もつれ）と結合し、特定の瞬間（意識の瞬間）を生成する‌‌ための、具体的なメカニズムを提供するモデルとして扱っています。

バイオフォトンの研究

マッシモ・テオドラニ博士との対談において、‌‌意識、量子力学、宇宙論‌‌のより大きな文脈におけるバイオフォトン（Bio-photons）の研究は、‌‌生命体の機能における量子的なコヒーレンスと非局所性‌‌の重要性を強調するために取り上げられています。

バイオフォトンに関する議論は、意識と物質が切り離されていないという非二元論的な宇宙観を支持し、生命現象が単なる古典的な化学反応ではなく、深層的な量子力学的要因に依存していることを示唆しています。

1. バイオフォトンとは何か？

バイオフォトンは、イタリアの理論物理学者エミリオ・ディ・ジュディチェ（Emilio Di Giudice）、フリッツ・ポップ（Fritz Popp）、ピーター・ガリャーエフ（Peter Garryev）らの理論に基づいて説明されています。

‌‌定義：‌‌ バイオフォトンは、生物学的存在（生命体）の内部にある‌‌量子場（quantum field）‌‌が励起した原子の反応として発生する電磁放射（ラジオ波および紫外線フォトン）の形をとる光子です。
‌‌量子ポテンシャルの等価物：‌‌ この量子場は、文字通り‌‌量子ポテンシャル（quantum potential）‌‌の等価物であり、生命体内のすべての分子を結びつけている「エンタングルメント（量子もつれ）」の役割を果たしています。
‌‌生命機能への不可欠性：‌‌ この結合や同期（シンクロニゼーション）がなければ、生命の機能は存在できず、生物は死んでしまうとテオドラニ博士は説明しています。

2. バイオフォトンの測定と科学的裏付け

テオドラニ博士は、一部の懐疑論者がバイオフォトンを否定している（「でたらめ」と称する）ことに反論し、バイオフォトンが科学的に測定されている事実を強調しています。

‌‌測定機器：‌‌ バイオフォトンは、天文学で使われるのと同じ‌‌フォトンカウンター光度計‌‌である‌‌光電子増倍管（photon multipliers）‌‌を使用して測定されています。
‌‌定量的な存在：‌‌ バイオフォトンは、単に測定されただけでなく、平方センチメートルあたりのフォトン数として定量的に測定されています。
‌‌身体全体への分布：‌‌ さらに、身体におけるバイオフォトンの分布図が作成されており、身体が刺激された特定の状況下で、それらが‌‌活性化する様子‌‌が磁気共鳴などの技術によって確認されています。
‌‌結論：‌‌ この事実は、バイオフォトンの存在が疑いようのないものであり、生命活動における量子効果の役割が認識され始めていることを示しています。

3. バイオフォトンの研究が示唆する意識と宇宙論的含意

バイオフォトンの研究は、細胞生物学における量子物理学の役割を探求する動き（例：ジョン・ジョー・マクファーデンの研究）と並行しており、意識、量子力学、宇宙論のより広い枠組みの中で、以下の点を強化します。

‌‌生命の基盤としての量子コヒーレンス：‌‌ バイオフォトンの存在は、生命体が機能するために、分子レベルでの‌‌同期した量子もつれ‌‌が必要であることを示しており、古典的な決定論的物理学だけでは生命を完全に説明できないことを示唆しています。
‌‌非局所的な情報接続：‌‌ 量子ポテンシャルの等価物としてのバイオフォトンは、デヴィッド・ボームの非局所性（non-locality）の概念とも一致しており、生命体のすべての部分が、空間や時間から独立した形で、‌‌全体として協調して動作している‌‌という考えを支持しています。
‌‌「ビッグ・ライブラリー」との関連性の可能性：‌‌ テオドラニ博士が提唱する、宇宙の量子真空に情報が非局所的に記憶されている‌‌「ビッグ・ライブラリー」‌‌のモデルも、この量子的な情報接続の必要性と一致しています。生命体は、バイオフォトンを介した分子間の量子的な同期を通じて、この宇宙の情報フィールド（アカシック・フィールドやゼロ・ポイント・フィールド）と繋がっている可能性が示唆されます。

したがって、バイオフォトンの研究は、生命が物質に内在する量子の「魔法」（シンクロニシティと非因果的な順序）を利用しており、意識の根源が脳内の活動だけでなく、宇宙の根本的な量子構造全体に根差しているという、‌‌統合された非二元的な世界観‌‌を支える証拠として位置づけられています。

情報源

動画(2:07:59)

Interview with Italian astrophysicist Dr Massimo Teodorani

文字起こし

展開

（以下は "Interview with Italian astrophysicist Dr Massimo Teodorani" と題された遠隔インタビュー動画の文字起こしです。話者識別ずみ。Anthony Peake が聞き手、語り手が Massimo Teodorani Ph.D です。）

[Anthony Peake] : Hello everybody. Welcome to the latest edition of the Anthony Peake's Consciousness Hour. If you have a sensation of deja vu this is because as usual the gremlins are playing with us and we went out live then we didn't go out live and then the recording didn't seem to work any well. But we're used to this now and we just we laugh in the face of fate and everything else does everything else as well because that's what we do. Today's guest is somebody I've admired for many many years. (00:00:28)

[Anthony Peake] : It's Dr Massimo Tedorani who is a northern Italian astrophysicist. Now Massimo and I, our work runs in parallel in many ways but the major difference is that I'm an enthusiastic amateur when it comes to quantum mechanics and astrophysics whereas Massimo is an absolute expert on this subject and has lectured and taught at many universities across northern Italy over the years. But his conclusions are extraordinarily similar to my own and this is why I'm very excited to get into a deep and meaningful discussion here about the finer points about quantum mechanics and the implications of quantum mechanics. And I know rather like myself Massimo has suffered at the hands of the radical skeptics in terms of Wikipedia and everything else which we will touch upon and there's very other great other issues that we're going to talk about over the next two hours. (00:01:24)

[Anthony Peake] : So just to tell you a little bit about Massimo, I'll be reading this as I always do so please ignore him in terms of my reading skills, but Dr Massimo Tedorani is a northern Italian astrophysicist and obtained his Lario degree in astronomy and his PhD in stellar physics at the University of Bologna. As a researcher at the astronomical observatories of Bologna and Naples and later at the INAF radio telescope of Medicina, he has been involved in research of many types of explosive stellar phenomena such as supernova, nova, eruptive photostars and high mass close binary stars and more recently in the search for extra solar planets and extraterrestrial intelligence within the CT project. Dr Tedorani subsequently taught physics as a lecturer at the universities of Bologna, Rome and Torino. Among his varied research interests there is an active involvement in the study of anomalous aerial phenomena. (00:02:21)

[Anthony Peake] : In 2010 Dr Tedorani was invited to address the European Parliament on the subject of UFOs. Massimo was the lead scientific advisor for the 2000-2001 Embla research project at Hessdalen in Norway. He has conducted on-site scientific research in several known locations of UAPs including Arizona, USA and Ontario, Canada. In 2021 he became research affiliate of the Galileo project and is a member of the scientific coalition for the UAP studies of studies SCU. He's also an expert in military aeronautics. (00:02:54)

[Anthony Peake] : So with that to start, Massimo welcome to the Anti-Pig Consciousness Hour. (00:02:59)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Thank you to have me here. (00:03:02)

[Anthony Peake] : Okay well let's get straight into the subject matter really. I'm really interested in some of the things that you're interested in. But one thing that I am fascinated is to how you became interested in the subject you are. I mean it's a different approach and a different career from many standard physicists. So what is it that made you think this is the area I'm really interested in? (00:03:25)

[Massimo Teodorani] : I want to be sincere. When I was a child, my very little child, I had strange experiences. Okay and so for some point for some years I didn't know which reality is the true reality. Or was it my fantasy? Was it something that belongs to my reality? And what is that other reality? You know sometimes children can be delusional. I could have been clearly like many are. But then this stopped for... (00:04:05)

[Massimo Teodorani] : it stopped very quickly and a rational mind started to form during middle and high school and then at university. I was a super, how to say, skeptical. Very fond of the use of the reason and very confident that the reason can solve everything. So my interest in some things that could be related to my old experience was not existing anymore. I was just like a priest of science because after all scientists are some kind of priest and science institution is the church of today in some way. Well there was a synchronicity. (00:05:03)

[Massimo Teodorani] : I know you Anthony like very much synchronicities because... but there was a synchronicity because after I finished my PhD and I was competing for various positions, I was at a free market somewhere near here in Modena and I was looking at old books. All of a sudden there were the books about mystery and one of those books was by Jenny Randalls who is a super excellent British ufologist. And I looked at the book, the book fell on the ground on the second last page and when I read that page it was written Project S. Darlin. S. Darlin is a location in Norway where strange light phenomena occur very often. (00:06:03)

[Massimo Teodorani] : But from that time on suddenly a trigger started in my mind and I retrieved all my subconscious interest in so-called UFOs in a different way. In the sense that assuming that witness cases reading books is so boring, always the same story, there is nothing dynamic there. S. Darlin was, how to say, a test bed to use specific locations in the world as laboratory area where you can attempt to make measurement. (00:06:50)

[Anthony Peake] : Can you explain a little bit about S. Darlin? Because I know, I've known of it and I'm sure some of the people watching will also know. It's a phenomenally interesting thing. If you can explain a little bit about this. (00:07:01)

[Massimo Teodorani] : S. Darlin is a valley in central Norway, very close to the border with Sweden, where especially since 1981 a light phenomenon is occurring very often. A strange light phenomenon that could be similar to ball lightning. But the difference is that the light balls in that case are 10 times bigger and they last 10 times more. They are multicolored, they are spherical, they can be seen both jumping randomly erratically in the sky or appear all of a sudden just on the ground. They can split in many parts and sometimes they can acquire geometrical shapes. (00:07:50)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Which are all things that I could witness myself. In 1984, Professor Erling Strand, who is a professor of engineering at the Ostfod College near Oslo, decided to use measurement instruments to try to take data on the phenomena. Namely to try to make a science on this kind of phenomena. For almost the first time, because there was Professor Dr. Arlie Routledge who did a similar thing a few years before. Because, you know, it's a phenomenon that is producing light. (00:08:37)

[Massimo Teodorani] : It's producing photons of various wavelengths, ranging from radio waves up to ultraviolet passing by the optical. And if it's emitting electromagnetic radiation in general, we can use exactly the same physics that we use in astronomy when we measure the light of the star. Analyzing that how much light is emitting, which wavelength interval is it picking, which color, how is the spectrum of the light. All things that we do in astronomy, which we could apply also in the case of Stalin. And so... (00:09:25)

[Anthony Peake] : You know, I'd never thought about that. That effectively by using spectrography, you could actually analyze presumably what elements were involved in the light source and everything else as well. Very interesting. (00:09:35)

[Massimo Teodorani] : You can, but differently from the case of the stars where you have almost always, practically always spectral lines overlapped on a continuum spectrum. In the case of this phenomenon, sometimes you have no line at all. In the sense that the gas is totally ionized in the sense that you have free ions and electrons. Sometimes there is, you can see emission lines and clearly from the intensity of those emission lines, you can deduce not only the chemical composition, but also the temperature and the pressure and the density of the number of atoms that are involved in the quantum transition that is happening. So it becomes a sort of identity card, and it can help us to understand something. (00:10:41)

[Massimo Teodorani] : And in fact, in some cases we were not lucky, even if the spectrum was very strange, looking like LED lights, which is strange to be a natural phenomenon. In some other cases, we had a confirmation that it's an excitation process. It's a plasma, something that is very hot. And it was very easy to have a confirmation about this because we see the emission lines of oxygen. So you have something that is ionizing the air and excite the gases there and produce emission lines that helps to understand not only the chemical composition of what we are seeing, which is air, ionized air, but above all the temperature. (00:11:37)

[Massimo Teodorani] : So we can deduce, for instance, that the temperature is about 4,000 Kelvin, not far, not so different from the photosphere of the sun, for instance. So this can help us, but sometimes it's very difficult because we don't have, we don't see spectral lines and the picture becomes much more complicated. And clearly, this is only one technique because the philosophy, the strategy, the procedure involves the fact that you are using several instruments simultaneously, namely magnetometer, radio spectrometer in the microwave range, and also in the VLF range, which is a very long wavelength, and optical and infrared also. (00:12:34)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Interesting, the infrared, because sometimes the phenomenon tend to disappear from sight. But if you use a night vision system, you see the phenomenon is still there. So it's living most of its life, lifetime in the infrared. (00:12:54)

[Anthony Peake] : That's fascinating. So that suggests that it, because it's in the infrared, we cannot see it. We can sense it, the heat coming from it, but we can't see it. So therefore they could be around far more because they're just not being stimulating our retinas. (00:13:10)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Absolutely, yes. But we have to be very careful because in the air, when you observe in the infrared, we catch a lot of sometimes of bubbles of air that is hotter, that is warmer than normal air. And they look like UFOs, like, but they are just bubble. It's a kind of turbulent effect. And these bubbles tend to go upwards because this is physics, but they are not the phenomenon. So we have to be very careful to distinguish the bad wind from the flowers. (00:13:56)

[Massimo Teodorani] : So it's something that we have to distinguish very carefully the signal from the noise. And so it's good that we calibrate everything. (00:14:08)

[Anthony Peake] : Is the rock up the granite? (00:14:10)

[Massimo Teodorani] : In Stalin, I don't think there is a lot of granite. I'm not a geologist, but there could be. It's a good question because if you have granite, if you have basalt above all quartz, and if there is a movement of the ground, if there are tectonic... (00:14:36)

[Anthony Peake] : That's what I thought, plate tectonics and sort of the tectonics itself would cause the lights in one way or another. (00:14:45)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Yes, absolutely. And through the piezoelectric effect, especially if these areas are seismic, it's much more probable that there is a tectonic stress. It's not the case of Stalin because his seismograph didn't show anything particularly interesting. But there are other situations, for instance, like my colleague, Professor Björn Gittler-Hauge, Professor of Engineering. He suggested something very interesting because I think that in Stalin, there are many caves. It was a place of miners. (00:15:29)

[Massimo Teodorani] : They were extracting copper stain and other elements. So there are many holes, but there is also water that goes in the holes. When this water cools down in winter, especially in winter, it becomes ice. But this ice compresses the rocks and this compression can create piezoelectric effects. So this is a very reasonable theory that has been also tested in a lab by scientists like Professor Friedmann Freund, a German scientist back in the United States, which demonstrated that if we compress a rock very strongly, there is electricity, strong electricity, that is liberated. (00:16:25)

[Massimo Teodorani] : This is a trigger mechanism, but this doesn't solve the mystery. Because yes, we can reasonably think that this is a triggering mechanism, but the mystery here, the main mystery, is why a light bulb remains self-contained for a long time, I mean up to two hours sometimes, turning on and off, but up to two hours without expanding, because plasma would tend to expand immediately, which would cool down immediately the bulb, and the bulb would last not more than 10 seconds. Instead, we see light bulbs that turn off and on, and they continue so up to two hours, something that can be even 30 meters across in diameter. (00:17:20)

[Massimo Teodorani] : And so the biggest mystery in physics here is what is the confinement mechanism of the plasma. There must be something that is containing the plasma. In fact, we are thinking to a sort of magnetic cage that is just compressing the plasma from the outside. But there must be also a sort of central force, similar to the gravity force, that is attracting the plasma towards the center. And there is a, how to say, consistent mechanism, because if there is, for instance, a mini black hole that is causing this, like a collapse of the plasma, okay, during the collapse you have that there is a physical law that says that the local magnetic force lines are hugely amplified. So it's a system that feeds itself, and it creates a magnetic cage, and evidently it lasts a very long time. (00:18:27)

[Massimo Teodorani] : So we don't know yet if the things are so, and that's the reason mostly why we want to study this phenomenon. Also because it is able to produce a lot of energy, sometimes one megawatt or even more. And if we understand the physics fully of this phenomenon, then we can reproduce it in a laboratory, and we can do ourselves something that is useful to our, how to say, energetic utilization or something, yeah. (00:19:06)

[Anthony Peake] : Anthony, I don't listen to you anymore. Can you hear me now? Can you hear me? (00:19:21)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Try again. (00:19:24)

[Anthony Peake] : Can you hear me now? (00:19:25)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Oh yeah, I do. (00:19:26)

[Anthony Peake] : Okay, fine. Yeah, it just seemed there was a problem. It looked like there was some kind of outage going on in terms of my sound, but I could hear you perfectly well. This is very intriguing, isn't it? Because this does, it reminds me of the work of Paul Devereaux in his work on Earthlight. So again, you know, mentioning Jenny Randles, and you know what a wonderful writer she is, and her work is extraordinary in terms of that. And I think this whole thing about Earthlight and how unidentified aerial phenomena could be put down to kind of tectonic phenomenon, but it still doesn't explain a lot of the way in which these objects seem to move, as you said. (00:20:05)

[Anthony Peake] : And I was fascinated by your concept of saying they were like mini black holes, because that's extraordinary, isn't it? So the idea that the mass is so strong on them, that they're actually, it's incredible. I'll be looking into this subject far more, and I know there's a great deal of research being done, and there's lots of articles written on the Hesselden lights as well. Because I'm also reminded in North Wales, close to where I was brought up, there was a series of lights called the Egeren lights, which took place along the North Wales coast around 1900-1901. And again, the reason I asked for the question on granite was because of course you have the Snowdonia range close by, and there's a lot of granite there. (00:20:45)

[Anthony Peake] : But there does seem to be linkages in some way. That was quite fascinating. So what I'd like to do now is to just discuss a little bit about the problems you have found, and the issues you've found, in terms of how science approaches such phenomena. And clearly a scientist like you, who's extremely knowledgeable, is going out there with an open mind, and is analysing the phenomena. Whereas an awful lot of scientists just refuse to accept the phenomena, because it's anomalous in one way at all. (00:21:16)

[Anthony Peake] : What's your feelings on this? Why do you think scientists are so close-minded? (00:21:21)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Well they are, I think, because of practical reasons. Not just because they are not interested. Some scientists are interested indeed in this phenomenon. But the practical reason that I mean, is that it's a kind of phenomenon that you cannot yet reproduce in a laboratory, so that you can control it at will. And so you obtain all the data that you are expecting to obtain, that can be positive or negative, doesn't matter. You obtain a lot of data, like when we observe a star, okay? (00:22:07)

[Massimo Teodorani] : So we know that we will, if you use a spectrograph, a photopolarimeter, a photometer, we will obtain a lot of data that will confirm or disprove a theory. In the case of the Stalin-like phenomena, we don't know if we will find, if we will obtain data. And if the spectrum is only a continuum spectrum, you can have very little information. If you have a variability study that cannot be explained with known phenomena, you can publish it, but telling, well, it doesn't fit any known theory. Well, it's not politically correct. (00:22:59)

[Massimo Teodorani] : It's not something that is good for the career of a physicist. They say, publish or perish, okay? And most are afraid that things go in this way. In reality, things didn't go very much in this way. It's true that we didn't understand, we don't have yet a quantitative, how to say, model of the phenomenon. But it's also true that our observation helped to give a much more detailed description of the phenomenon as it is. And this is quantitative. (00:23:43)

[Massimo Teodorani] : For instance, we understood that the mechanism of why the phenomenon is pulsing is turning off, on and off. We thought that, well, it is expanding. No, it's not expanding. But when you go in high resolution, you see that all of a sudden around the nucleus of the light phenomenon, all of a sudden there is a cluster of other lights that appear out of nowhere, all around it, something dancing inside. It's something spectacular, which we are not able to explain yet. (00:24:20)

[Massimo Teodorani] : But thanks to our instrumentation, now we know how it works, how it behaves. We don't know yet what creates that because we need much more instruments. We need an automatic platform that is able to take data all the time. I remind you that at the time of my investigation in Stalin, but also in other places like in Arizona, Canada, Ireland, where I went, also Italy, it was something like a night watching. We were staying there for two weeks, then we were going back home, and we were not staying all the night there. (00:25:03)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Instead, you need something that takes data automatically all the time. And this project is about to be implemented by Project Galileo, of which I am an affiliate, researcher and consultant substantially. We will have an automatic station that takes data 24 hours. And we don't need to have a person on site all the time. In the beginning, it will be manual, but very soon, then it will become automatic, also in the way of diagnosing lights using artificial intelligence. So there are software or artificial intelligence that is able to say, well, this is a bird, this is an airplane, this is something else, an insect. (00:26:03)

[Massimo Teodorani] : No, and this one is something that we like, and we want to study. In that case, the system automatically aims a little telescope to the chosen target and takes data of that target, which can be everything. It can be radio data, optical data, spectroscopical data, even, how to say, acoustic and ultrasound, infrasound, everything all at the same time. (00:26:40)

[Anthony Peake] : So you mentioned there are two questions that bounce out from this. I know I'm sort of moving away because I'm quite intrigued about two things. The first one is if you can explain exactly what Project Galileo is. And B, you mentioned that you were doing research in three locations in Ireland, Ontario, and Arizona, as I recall. Maybe you can tell us first about Project Galileo and then about the research you were doing in those locations and what has stimulated that research. Was it similar to Hesselland, or was it something completely different? (00:27:10)

Yes. (00:27:11)

[Massimo Teodorani] : To answer to the first question, Project Galileo, or The Galileo Project, you can see the website, which shows what is the intent, is a project that has been created one year ago by Professor Avi Loeb, who is an astrophysicist at the University of Harvard. After he was, how to say, stimulated to create this project, after he discovered, he analysed the data of a strange object in the solar system, which was behaving not like a comet which was much faster than a comet, which was not creating a tail. It was something that, after doing some calculations, let Professor Avi Loeb think, suspect at least, that it could be an artificial object sent by some other civilization, considering also the speed, which was twice faster than the speed that we would expect from a comet, so of intestinal origin. (00:28:38)

[Massimo Teodorani] : At that point, it came out the idea that Earth might be visited by other civilizations. And this is something really very new in, how to say, canonic science, like astrophysics. Professor Loeb is an extremely talented guy. He did a lot of publications in astrophysics, and he suddenly was interested in that. At that point, he said, well, if we are visited by our solar system, someone is able to visit our solar system, evidently it could be, this is my interpretation, like, you know, you are the carrier, and the carrier sends a fighter to the land to make recognition. Are there aircraft from that extraterrestrial carrier on our planet? (00:29:36)

[Massimo Teodorani] : And so he told, he created the Galileo project, whose goal is twofold. The first one is to try to see if we are able to find another of these strange objects in the solar system, whom he called Oumuamua. (00:29:54)

[Anthony Peake] : Oh, that was Oumuamua, that was the long, long thin thing? (00:29:58)

Yes. (00:29:59)

[Anthony Peake] : I thought it was. Okay, okay. (00:30:00)

[Massimo Teodorani] : It was that. (00:30:01)

[Anthony Peake] : Okay. (00:30:02)

[Massimo Teodorani] : And the other is to see if there is something strange in our skies, and that is coming from elsewhere. And this doesn't mean that we are searching necessarily for extraterrestrial spacecraft. It's simply the intent to make some science, some real physical science, on something that has been witnessed since 70 years, I would say 80 years officially, but has been described only by witnesses or something. We need something that is quantitatively described by science. In fact, now we are, soon we will submit several technical papers to astronomical journals, where we describe our work. (00:31:01)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Okay. Lately, I'm not working very much with them, because it was busy in some things. But in the first six months, I was very active, and there will be also my name in some of those papers. And so we want to see if we can get data that are rigorous, that they can be converted into numbers, that you put the numbers on a chart, and you see how these numbers vary with the independent variable, like time, like space, so that from the curve, you can deduce an equation that describes the curve of the data. And we make some mathematics on that. (00:31:46)

[Massimo Teodorani] : So this is exactly what we want to do. At the present time, the instruments are being tested on the roof of the observatory there, and by very good engineers, I have to say, because it's a work of collaboration between engineers, mechanical and optical engineers, electronic engineers, by computer scientists who are writing the software with artificial intelligence that can help us to diagnose what is seen, because there is an alarming system, practically an old sky camera that is monitoring all the sky, all of a sudden sees something that cannot be explained prosaically, and gives the command to a little telescope to track the object of interest on which we are going to get data. And the idea is to put these little stations, which are multi-instrument, in several places that are, how to say, hot spots, like I would say, where people have seen. (00:33:03)

[Massimo Teodorani] : One of them is the Catalina Island, where the famous tic-tac case of American Navy came out. As you know, some years ago, some pilots of F-18E got on their sensor pod images of a real UAP and confirmed the existence of these things. So we don't know yet if it's a technological object, we don't know yet if it's, how to say, a drone of some strange kind. (00:33:41)

[Anthony Peake] : Were these the images which were showing, they were in black and white, and it was like a gun sight? Right, okay. (00:33:49)

[Massimo Teodorani] : It was the gun sight, and it was showing all the parameter of the flight of this object, which was moving erratically, stopping in the air, and then all of a sudden, flying away at speeds that, I would say, could be Mach 10, or something like 15,000 kilometers per hour. (00:34:11)

[Anthony Peake] : Yeah, didn't it drop and then went straight up, or something as I recall? (00:34:14)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Also that, yes, yes, they were going up and down, sometimes horizontally, something that is not easy to track with a sensor pod. But once or twice, they were able to track it, and it was going very, very fast on the surface of the ocean, or so. So after that happened, after several, I would say, witnesses of high value were taken into account, so they are technicians, they are experts, they are pilots, they are like engineers, even more, the American government started to, I would say, to think more seriously about that. And so, Professor Loeb, who is the chief of the Galileo project, was able to get some funding, not a few dollars, to try to verify, using the scientific method, if this object exists, and if they exist, what they are. (00:35:24)

[Massimo Teodorani] : And we don't assume automatically, we are not there searching for extraterrestrials. We are there simply taking, trying to take data of the object, and tell what they are, and what they are not. So only data will tell what they are, or they are not. So next year, I think, probably before, maybe at the end of this year, there will be the first testing in a hot spot, and hopefully next year, there might be some data from there. So let's see, let's hope, and cross fingers. (00:36:06)

[Anthony Peake] : That is very exciting news, and this is what has been needed for so long, isn't it? A rational scientific approach to the phenomenon, to say, you know, let's measure it, let's quantify it, let's really understand what's taking place here. And one of the areas I know that you're particularly interested in, or you're not over enamored with, I know, is the extraterrestrial hypothesis that these entities, whether these are craft or whatever, for you, you take a position that's far more sophisticated than that, in terms of what you think is really going on here. (00:36:40)

[Anthony Peake] : Maybe you could expand a little bit about that, and then you could go back to the Ontario, the island, and... Oh yes, the other question, yeah. (00:36:47)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Well, my position is, well, I took into account both hypotheses. In fact, I published at least three or four peer-reviewed paper on Acta Astronautica, for instance, where I tried to make a research plan on how to find, how to search, and how to find technosignature in other stars, for instance, that are around those stars, which is called the Dyson spheres, or something that is moving towards us. So something that has a very strong, proper motion, that is very fast moving, that is possibly inside the solar system, and that has an infrared access, that has more infrared than the one we would expect from a normal celestial source. (00:37:44)

[Massimo Teodorani] : So it's possible that someone is sending a big, how to say, carriers, you know, sort of transatlantic big ships in space, this is very possible, we cannot exclude that. And then one would say, okay, then obviously they would be interested in Earth as a planet, because it's a beautiful planet, and because it's a planet where you can live well, it's full of resources or something, of course they would be interested in Earth and not in Pluto or Jupiter or something. And they would send their airplanes to monitor, to check, to make recognitions or something. (00:38:32)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Are the things really so? Well, I've been reading a lot about the UFOs, UFO things, and all what comes out, mostly from witnesses, is something that reminds me more about magic than about something that is nuts and bolts. Something more magic, considering that people think they see a flying saucer, or something like a cube, a flying cube, something that could not fly at all, in that way. But that seems something, a sort of illusion, that probably there is something outside there. (00:39:22)

[Massimo Teodorani] : But speaking with a specialist who are studying this phenomenon, from the point of view of psychology, or sociology, neurophysiology, they notice, many of them, including my wife, Susan Demeter, who is a very prominent scholar of this phenomenon. (00:39:48)

[Anthony Peake] : Yes, just to jump in here, Susan has been a previous guest of this show. (00:39:52)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember. (00:39:53)

[Anthony Peake] : Checking out her interview, it really coincides with yours. (00:39:57)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Yeah, it's also, there is also very good scholars, like Greg Bishop, for instance. And they are new, so-called new ufologists, who care more than the usual nuts and bolts things, that think that the phenomenon is something that needs the participation of the witness. Practically, there is a sort of co-creation effect that makes this phenomenon something that is more similar to a paranormal phenomenon than to a nuts and bolts-like appearance, or something. It's not my field, okay, but I'm quite fascinated about this thing, because it makes me think about something that Mr. Wright, that is inside Dr. Jack here, like to think that our mind, our consciousness, can interact with matter and activate something, like when we push an interrupter. (00:41:11)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Maybe our mind is working like an interrupter, like when you turn on the light, something activates something else, or some openings, because we cannot exclude that our mind is able to open gates of some kind. I cannot exclude that. And this can be tested also scientifically. We always think about wormholes, about stargates or something, and we try to imagine a door, a gate, that is out of us. But it may be that the gate can be opened by our consciousness. (00:41:52)

[Massimo Teodorani] : So there must be something that has been denied for several centuries, thanks to Mr. Rene Descartes, the Cartesian philosophy, that was splitting practically reality in two parts. From one part is matter, which is the object of science, and the other one is res cogitans, is mind. It was splitting, dividing the two things. Instead, not only I, but many other scientists think that consciousness is a part of matter, is coexisting with matter. And if you go to see, for instance, the studies, quantum studies, by physicist David Bohm, you will notice that his equation, his version of the wave function equation, which describes it's the fundamental equation of quantum mechanics, he was able to characterize this equation in a classical way, where you have a classical factor, which is matter, as we know it, which is a subject to the causality effect and goes, okay, and the speed of light, plus something else that is independent from space and time. (00:43:19)

[Massimo Teodorani] : And that is the main cause of quantum entanglement. So you have a reality where you have two factors that are entangled together. Something that is, that can be, that it is about classical physics, it's about Newtonian physics, which works perfectly, and something else that is independent from space and time. And we see this in particular condition in particles, elementary particles, sometimes that are interacting together, at least once. If you try to measure one in the lab, and the other one is very far away, it will react immediately. (00:44:03)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Okay. So there is something in nature that is magic, literally. Also, when you go inside the energetic states, quantum states of the atoms, well, you can describe them in a classical way. But when you go inside, very much inside, you see that, for instance, inside an atom, electrons, they must settle with the spin and anti-spin in couples, with a positive spin and a negative spin. In that way, like to put our socks inside the drawers of a closet, a very orderly way. It's something very intelligent. (00:44:54)

[Massimo Teodorani] : The way in which particles dispose themselves inside the wardrobe is not causal, but is synchronic. So it's something like if you're inside matter, you have something magic. It's something like I say in my conferences, it's like the pearl that is inside the shell, which is the magic thing that is inside. It's like the spirit that is inside matter. And this is beautiful because the way in which electrons are disposed inside matter, the way in which they dispose themselves synchronically, makes so that we enjoy physical reality. Because if... I'm speaking about the Pauli exclusion principle. (00:45:50)

[Massimo Teodorani] : If it were not so, we would not be able to see volumes, to see colors, to see differentiated matter, but only a total chaos. So there is a miracle here, that there is an intelligence. I am not a believer in God, but I have a feeling there is a lot of intelligence here. (00:46:16)

[Anthony Peake] : Well, I think, you know, very much with your analogy there of Pauli's exclusion principle. It is always... I've always found that extraordinary as well, you know, the way in which there are shells and only certain electrons can be in certain shells. And the way it just seems to work so wonderfully mathematically. There seems to be a kind of a hidden order here. And of course, this is what David Bohm would argue, wouldn't you? There's the implicate and explicate orders. (00:46:38)

[Anthony Peake] : And that there is a hidden order and there's the hidden variables that Einstein used to talk about, that I know David Bohm was quite fascinated by. And of course, you know, we are both fascinated by the writings of David Bohm. And again, whenever you're talking here, I've got a million and one questions bouncing up in my mind here. But in terms of first, you know, if talking about Pauli and Pauli's interest in synchronicity and his work with Carl Gustav Jung in terms of synchronicity is intriguing. And I think, wasn't Pauli preoccupied with a particular number? (00:47:13)

[Anthony Peake] : Was it 18 or something? And that ended up being the room that he died in, in a hospital? (00:47:20)

[Massimo Teodorani] : It was maybe 167. Right. Or something like that. (00:47:26)

[Anthony Peake] : It was, wasn't it? Yeah. (00:47:27)

[Massimo Teodorani] : It was something like that. (00:47:29)

[Anthony Peake] : And he was preoccupied with it because he kept coming up in his scientific calculations and everything. And then he enters this hospital to never come out. And that's the room he was in, you know, and that is kind of one of these kind of wonderful synchronicities, you know, we always have the Pauli effect and everything else as well. But with David Bohm, I find that David Bohm's time is now coming where, you know, there are things we cannot explain anymore, like non-locality, like the way in which, you know, sort of you put two particles in the same quantum state, and then they, you know, the EPR paradox and everything else as well. (00:48:05)

[Anthony Peake] : So this is what intrigues me as to why it is that modern scientists, the rejectionist scientists, the materialist reductionists, the followers of Cartesian dualism, as you pointed out there, why they don't see that the things they are discovering in quantum mechanics, and they've discovered over the last 120 years in quantum mechanics, are very evidential of the fact that the universe works in a very, very curious way. It's not mechanistic. (00:48:34)

[Anthony Peake] : It's almost, as Sir Julian Jeans said, it's not a great machine. It's more like a great idea. And this relationship between the conscious observer and external effects, like the Quinn-Swinslet experiment. So, but that's not for my role to describe. Could you tell us a little bit about, you know, the wonderful descriptions you give in your book about David Bohm, and also just the mysteries of quantum mechanics? Why it is that quantum mechanics is so strange? (00:49:02)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Yeah, well, mainly because quantum mechanics, what we know about quantum mechanical state, which regards particles, deals not only particles themselves, but also about the observer. Observer, I mean, the guy who observed with an electron microscope. I mean that it's not a magician that is observing others or something. The problem is that reality, according to the quantum world, is how it is only when we observe it. But when we do not observe it, and then, for instance, an atom can be everywhere inside a given volume. It can be everywhere. (00:50:00)

[Massimo Teodorani] : And so it seems that the true nature of reality, the intrinsic nature of reality, is hidden to us. The thing that we look at is something that we trigger with our observation act, but we don't know. We cannot see how is the entire reality. And maybe it has been intuited by a physicist like Hugh Everett, Jr., who thought that at the moment of observation, not only we observe only one reality, but when you have a so-called collapse of the wave function at the moment of observation, at the same time we observe one reality, but at the same time all the other possibilities collapse in parallel realities. (00:51:00)

[Massimo Teodorani] : So it seems that, according to quantum mechanics, I say conceptually, as I feel it, reality is literally multidimensional. It's literally multidimensional. At that point, I would think that our consciousness, which is able to experience phenomena that are very similar to entanglement, telepathy is entanglement, qualitatively. Our mind could live simultaneously in different dimensions. And sometimes, this is philosophical, metaphysical speculation that I have now, but I've been thinking a lot about that, especially when we dream, when we have lucid dreams, or when we have a hypnagogic or hypnopompic visions. Where are we going? (00:52:07)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Because these are visions that are extremely clear to your mind, to the eye of the mind. They are extremely clear, more clear than reality itself. And at that time, our mind is very lucid and it's able to distinguish these visions from the processing of the things that we are seeing during the day. We know immediately, oh, that one is snapshots of what we experienced during the day. But sometimes we see other things with extremely detailed effects that are impressive. (00:52:54)

[Massimo Teodorani] : And sometimes I think that consciousness is living simultaneously in different dimensions. And it's the same as the electron. When we don't observe it, it lives simultaneously in several spaces inside that wall. And the same, our consciousness, in some way, in a few words, consciousness and particles seem to behave exactly the same way. (00:53:24)

[Anthony Peake] : Sarah, because you're very involved in dreaming and your research and work in dreaming. I'd like to draw you in here and your observations about what Massimo was saying there about dreaming and altered states of consciousness that take us to alter different dimensions of space-time. What's your thoughts on that? (00:53:41)

[Sarah Janes] : My personal experience of lucid dreaming and especially the hypnagogic state of falling into a lucid dream really validates that idea that you become conscious of the creative process and the entanglement. And that experience gives me a sense of bliss and transcendence when I'm in it. I feel like you were saying, lucid dreams feel more real than reality. And I think there's an element of the lucid dream experience because neurologically speaking, you're in a blended hybrid state of being awake with being asleep and dreaming at the same time. So it feels, I guess, like this full brain experience of consciousness. (00:54:26)

[Sarah Janes] : And I thought some of your explanations there were amazing, really clear and fascinating. And dreaming-wise, I'm really interested in the relationship that all human beings and all beings on the planet have with the stars, the cosmos as a whole. And I think that we are part of this conscious entity, I guess. And the planet, you know, if you look at the planet, the planet is a living organism. And that living organism is part of the cosmos. (00:54:59)

[Sarah Janes] : I guess I would call myself a pantheist or something like that, perhaps. But I've been really interested recently in ancient Mesopotamian ideas about sleeping under the stars to receive astral influence. And there's this idea by a seriologist called Erika Rayner, where if you lie out under the stars at night and the starlight infuses your body, you can be under the influence of the star gods because the stars were considered to be gods to ancient people and influence in that way. But I also think that, you know, we talk about, I've talked about this a lot recently, this idea that we are all part of this rhythm and pattern of the cosmos and of the planet. (00:55:44)

[Sarah Janes] : And the more you feel in sync with that, then generally speaking, the more sort of harmonious and healthy you are. And I think lucid dreaming is something that has massive potential for psychological well-being and physical health as well. And we're probably not maximizing on it as much as we possibly could. But definitely, I feel like something very unique occurs when you're in a lucid dream state. And I think that the lucid dream state is a sort of spectrum of consciousness as well. (00:56:19)

[Sarah Janes] : You can be very, very lucid where you can control everything in the dream. You can manifest whatever you want. And then you have these just moments of insight where you feel totally present. And a lot of people will wake up when they have those little experiences of being really present. But I do think it's really interesting. And I guess I see the human mind, and not even just the mind, the whole body system, a nervous system, because we have neurons in the heart and serotonin receptors in the gut. The whole body is an integrated system to receive consciousness from the cosmos and filter it through to something that humans can bear to experience. (00:57:02)

[Sarah Janes] : Because like you say, if we experienced it all simultaneously, it would kind of explode or something, I'm sure. (00:57:07)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Yeah, that's very interesting. I want to ask you something specifically about hypnagogic dreaming. I'm asking you, when it happens to you, how long do they last? (00:57:21)

[Sarah Janes] : It varies. So the thing that I really like to have lucid dreams from hypnagogia. So that can sometimes be a really long period of... I always describe it like, you know, Alice in Wonderland falling down the rabbit hole, this process of falling into a dream. And one thing that I've been really interested about recently is, you know, you were talking about the double slit experiment, and this idea of attention, and how attention changes and augments what you're viewing. And this is something that you see in lucid dreaming and in the hypnagogic state, that whatever you give your attention to, well, when you're in the early stages of hypnagogia, if you give yourself, if you give too much focus or attention to something, you can snap out of hypnagogia, and that rouses you from that state. (00:58:10)

[Sarah Janes] : Similarly, when you're a bit deeper in, if you give your attention to something, it manifests and it sort of builds up layers of reality until eventually it's a real actual thing in the lucid dream itself. So I think attention is a fascinating area of lucid dreaming. And one of the other things I've noticed in lucid dreaming is how your visual capabilities change. So someone who doesn't necessarily have very good eyesight, you can have 20-20 vision in the lucid dream state, and things can be crystal clear. And you can also see things far away and close up simultaneously, which I find interesting. (00:58:45)

[Sarah Janes] : And one of the things I've really noticed, because I have a lot of animals and birds in my dreams, is that instead of me getting closer to look at them more close up, they tend to be big, so I can see them in detail. So like a bird will be the size of a toddler, or an insect will be like about this size. So interesting little elements of dreaming that I are all based on attention really, and how the dream consciousness creates a scale rather than has to submit to the laws of the everyday material world. (00:59:21)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Yeah, that's very interesting. Something happened to me when I had also lucid dreams, but I honestly had never been able to pilot the events inside the dream. And when I have the hypnagogic vision, which sometimes continues with a lucid dream, I put so much attention to what I see, their faces, landscapes, there's so many details, alien, but also human, every kind. My left brain starts to work immediately, because it wants to record all the details. But this breaks the contact, and it kicks me out. (01:00:15)

[Massimo Teodorani] : So it seems that I should not ask questions, I should not be so attentive, I should be like an empty brain. I'm not able, I didn't learn. (01:00:30)

[Anthony Peake] : Do you know, that's very similar to me when whenever I get into hypnagogic states and hypnopompic states, that the left brain takes over and I start to try to analyze what's taking place. And the moment I do that, it seems to evaporate. The minute... I've always thought I've always used the analogy that when you're in a hypnagogic state, it's like you have to keep it in your periphery vision, and pretend you're not looking at it, and not to give it your attention, because it draws itself in. And then you kind of catch it. (01:00:59)

[Anthony Peake] : And that's when you can hold it. But I've only ever had one lucid dream where I was able to actually become conscious within the dream. But I know there are other individuals I know that go into these altered states of consciousness where there is this alternate reality, which is more real than this one. As you said in your book, it has its own geography. You go back to the same place. And I know there's one friend of mine, he's actually mapping the environment that he's traveling within. (01:01:27)

[Anthony Peake] : And again, I'm reminded here of the work of people such as Robert Monroe, for example, and the mapping of the location of his alternate self, his either, as he called it. And it seems that your point there about the collapsing of the wave function, the minute we collapse the wave function, all the other wave functions are collapsed in the same way, and they become just as real. But they are in existence to anticipate different decisions we make. (01:01:57)

[Anthony Peake] : And in this particular case, I'm fascinated by the last paper that Stephen Hawking wrote with, I think it was with Thomas Hertog, where he postulated what he called the top-down hypothesis of quantum physics, which seemed to me to have a kind of a ring of Richard Feynman's idea of the sum over histories, that every particle takes every route and it tests out every route before it decides which route it should take, which could then explain the twin-slit experiment, because of course the twin-slit experiments and the interference patterns are caused by all the alternate virtual particles, to coin a phrase. (01:02:35)

[Anthony Peake] : I know virtual particles is quite a precise term, but what I'm trying to say is these virtual particles interfere with each other in some way, bringing about the interference pattern. But as Hertog and Hawking argued in their top-down hypothesis, is that every outcome of every subatomic particle's decision or every event is already encoded within the macroverse, and it is all effectively digital. That it's information that is being collapsed here. It is the information that is used to describe the circumstances that we perceive as three-dimensional reality. (01:03:14)

[Anthony Peake] : And this in many ways draws us back to the person that we intimated and talked about before, the great David Bohm, and David Bohm and his concept of the implicate and explicate orders, and the way in which everything is enfolded within itself, and it's consciousness that unfolds all that. And I'm wondering could we now move on to your interpretations of the writings of the great David Bohm, because I can honestly say, and I said to you before we started the discussion, that your analogous descriptions of David Bohm's theories I think are the most powerful and the most intuitive I've ever come across. So maybe if you could explain a little bit about it and share that with the audience, because your descriptions of Bohm's work is fascinating and very well. (01:04:02)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Well, I should start with a metaphor, because David Bohm was speaking about concepts that were counter-intuitive, and quantum mechanics is counter-intuitive par excellence. So he liked to speak by metaphors. I would like to mention the metaphor of the sheep, which many surely know, but he thought that we have the two realms I mentioned before, the equation of the wave equation that contains two components, one causal and one synchronical. And he used a metaphor in which he thinks about a sheep, and the sheep moves because of two factors. (01:04:52)

[Massimo Teodorani] : First, it moves because it has an engine. And secondly, it knows where to move because it has a radar. So the engine is the classical reality, causal reality, where the sheep without an engine, you cannot move. So this is the causal reality. This is quantitative method that we use in mathematics and physics to describe concrete reality, as it varies in space and time. This is the engine of the sheep. But if the sheep doesn't know where to go, it will go round and round and round and look around itself. (01:05:39)

[Massimo Teodorani] : So you need a radar. The radar is the quantum potential. The quantum potential is something that informs the sheep instant by instant of where it is and where it must go. And it does that in a synchronic way. Bohm thinks that there is a quantum potential that is something like an electric plant that is non-locally informing every particle in the universe synchronically and sends information, literal information. But we could never measure that information because at the time we make the observation, the wave function collapses like soap bubbles. (01:06:29)

[Massimo Teodorani] : So we cannot know anything about that. We cannot know what particles are telling to each other. We don't know it, but they speak to each other. And not only that, but they get information from this electric plant like with street lights simultaneously. So you have a radar that informs the sheep how to move and tells the engine how to make good use of its engine. So this is, it speaks positively of both realms, the realm of matter and the realm of, how to say, consciousness. And you cannot have consciousness, as I interpreted it, without matter. (01:07:17)

[Massimo Teodorani] : And in this case, I think about Penrose-Amorof theory about quantum brain. Because a quantum, how to say, a conscious, you can have a consciousness moment only if you have one billion, typically, microtubules inside the brain that are entangled together in a sort of coherent orchestra, substantially. When you have a collapse of this ensemble, you have a consciousness moment. In that case, you have a consciousness moment. And this is what Penrose-Amorof think. In this case, it's important to know that consciousness is a factor that is important. (01:08:14)

[Massimo Teodorani] : But without the body, the brain is body, you cannot have any consciousness. Because if you don't have microtubules, you cannot have consciousness moments according to that model. Which is controversial, but which is growing more and more. The same, if you don't have a body made of matter, could be also plasma, or could be a Bose-Einstein condensate. It could be a fullerene molecule. If you don't have a matter that allows consciousness moments, consciousness cannot come out. So this teaches me that the universe in form of matter and energy has a meaning. (01:09:06)

[Massimo Teodorani] : That's the reason why the physical universe exists. I cannot conceive a universe made of only consciousness, or something like the church is thinking like angels with trumpets and everyone catatonic there. It could be terrible, it would be nonsensical. (01:09:31)

[Anthony Peake] : I think your point there is a very interesting one, isn't it? You know, the idea you're being very, very non-dual here, and saying that effectively both thought, you know, as the Cartesian duality, but both of them are elements of the same thing that need each other to relate to each other. And the role of the orchestrated objective reduction of Stuart Hammerhoff and Roger Penrose, which is the thing you're intimating or you're discussing here, uses quantum effects to bring about consciousness. But as you rightly say, it still needs physical effects to draw itself out. (01:10:10)

[Anthony Peake] : It reminds me here of, again, you know, of John Wheeler and the idea of the participatory universe, and the idea that in some way the universe is hardwired for the evolution of consciousness and conscious observers in order to bring the universe into existence. And I'm going to be doing a presentation of an event over the weekend, and my paper there is going to be a paper on the egregorial nature of reality, and the way in which there's a symbiotic relationship between the observer of the universe and the universe itself, you know, because as John Wheeler said, you know, using implications of the twin slit experiment to prove that not only do we bring into existence by our act of observation the physical world around us by collapsing the wave function, but on top of that, because he uses what he calls the delayed choice experiment, whereby he argues that we, in effect, by observing the light coming from a quasar from, what, seven, eight billion years ago, in which the light is curved around a galaxy, we get what's called an Einstein cross, don't we, which effectively there are two light sources either side of the galaxy, which in effect are just one light source because of the way in which gravitational lensing takes place. (01:11:35)

[Anthony Peake] : But effectively when we observe this and collapse, when we observe it, we collapse the wave function of something that happened billions of years ago, which is suggestive that time itself is part and part of the equation. And what we think of linear time is not linear time. You know, we have elements, there's a permanent now that we exist within, and this permanent now is something that we are all co-creating by collapsing that wave function. And I think this is the way it should be going. (01:12:06)

[Anthony Peake] : Now, I know that there's been criticism of Hamerhoff and Penrose, and I know, for instance, Max Penrose argued, Max Tegmark argued that it's too hot and wet in the brain. But my argument here, and I've always wanted to ask a physicist about this, that at the size of microtubules, surely heat and wetness do not exist because something cannot be too hot unless it has an element of wetness and heat. But surely within subatomic particles, there is no heat because heat is generated by the subatomic particles themselves. (01:12:44)

[Anthony Peake] : Do you understand what I'm making the point there? You know, how can it not happen? (01:12:49)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Well, Hamerhoff knows more about that because I appreciate Max Tegmark, of course, and I understand his concern. But Hamerhoff is saying that around microtubules, there is a sort of gel, gel-like substance that is able to isolate microtubules from the external ambient. Clearly, if at least for a sufficiently long time to allow entanglement process, it lasts very shortly. Clearly, when you have many molecules, when you interact with many molecules around, you have continuous interaction and you go to the decoherence process because there is an immediate collapse. But if you have something that is isolated, like microtubules are, and only a neurophysiologist knows, then no, you can have an entanglement process for a sufficiently long time to create entanglement, orchestrated reduction, and consciousness movement. (01:14:09)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Tegmark doesn't know because he's not a neurophysiologist. Not even Roger Parros knows, but Hamerhoff knows. So he is the man who has to speak in this case. (01:14:21)

[Anthony Peake] : Yeah, because it's interesting, isn't it? Because I cite Max Tegmark and his book, The Mathematical Universe, in my forthcoming book, which is out next month. And, you know, Tegmark himself is very much a supporter of the many worlds interpretation. And for instance, his own quantum suicide thought experiment suggests, you know, that we never die and that we exist in multiple universes. And our own universe needs us to exist within because we're collapsing the uniqueness of our own wave function. And therefore, we can never die. (01:14:56)

[Anthony Peake] : We die in the worlds of other people. So therefore, I find it quite interesting that he has such an issue with the Hamerhoff and Penrose model. You know, particularly when you're thinking, you know, that Roger Penrose, was it last year, received the Nobel Prize for physics? You know, so this guy, you know, really does know what he's talking about. You know, it's not as if, you know, it's like me fiddling around and trying to come up with ideas. These ideas, these guys really do know their stuff. (01:15:21)

[Anthony Peake] : And I think there is an awful lot here with the linking of the microtubule model, particularly with, and it brings us neatly on to, I think, you know, the idea of single photon interference patterns within the microtubules themselves, which brings us down to, you know, the whole concept of bio-photons and the work of people like Popp and Garryev and other individuals. So I'd like to move on to that now, because I know it's an interest, again, you discuss it in your book, and you're very interested in the idea of the concept of bio-photons. So when we talk about bio-photons, what do we mean? (01:15:56)

[Massimo Teodorani] : We mean something. There is the theory of Emilio Di Giudice, in particular, who is an Italian theoretical physicist, and Peter Garryev and Fritz Popp. They are the three ones, substantially. Their theory is that there is a field, practically there is an entanglement, a quantum potential, literally, it's the equivalent of the quantum potential in the biological being that is connecting all the molecules together. And this connection, it's not my specialization, clearly, this is biophysics. This connection generates electromagnetic radiation in form of radio waves and in form of ultraviolet photons. (01:16:57)

[Massimo Teodorani] : These photons are the bio-photons. These are the reaction of a quantum field that is exciting the atoms in the body, without which the vital function couldn't exist, we would die. If everything is not synchronized, we would die completely. Bio-photons, some skepticals say bio-photons are bullshit, bio-photons are something of quantum matters, or something like that. It's completely false. Bio-photons have been measured using photon multipliers, which are the same instruments that we use, photon counting photometers, that we use in astronomy. So they have been measured, not only they have been measured per square centimeter, but it has been possible to map their distribution over the body, because then we, they, not me, they have made magnetic resonance, they have made RMEI, CAT or something, and we can see them activating in particular situations when the body is stimulated. (01:18:16)

[Massimo Teodorani] : So they do exist. (01:18:19)

Yeah. (01:18:20)

[Anthony Peake] : Because this is interesting, isn't it, as well? I know that there's a guy I've been in contact with for the last 10 years or so, he was Hungarian, well he still isn't Hungarian, he was living in Hungary, and has now moved over to New York where he's continuing his studies, and there's a guy called Professor Istvan Bokun, and Bokun has been doing some fascinating work with bio-photons. And of course we then move into the areas of the work of people like John Joe McFadden at the University of Surrey, in terms of the quantum effects involved in cellular development and within cellular biology. (01:18:56)

[Anthony Peake] : So clearly there is now a growing area of inquiry in terms of the molecular level of biology and quantum physics. So I think we're slowly changing now, and we're moving to some quite exciting times in terms of this. And I'm just hopeful that in a few years' time we're going to break through from this kind of narrow worldview to realise that the answers are to be found by taking into account everything, and mixing together the different sciences, and saying well you know we can't exclude this, we need to think about these things in one way or another. (01:19:37)

[Anthony Peake] : So in terms of your own work then, one of the things in your book that you mentioned that I thought was quite fascinating, and I was quite determined that we would discuss this here, is your theory on the big library, and what that is, and the hyperspace of consciousness. Both amazing ideas, and in many ways I'm reminded slightly here of Tom Campbell and My Big Toe, but it's more than that. So can you talk about the big library? (01:20:06)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Yeah, my idea is very, it's an intuitive idea. There is no quantitative modelling about that. But I started to think it came from the idea of a quantum void, a quantum vacuum, okay. We have a quantum vacuum, the facts are this. We have a quantum vacuum that is inside the atoms, between the nucleus of protons and neutrons, and the electrons which are at a distance like Earth from Pluto, more or less. There is an immense ocean of nothing. (01:20:51)

[Massimo Teodorani] : 99% of our matter is made of nothing. And yet, we, our universe, was born from nothing, from what is called a virtual particle. It's something that all of a sudden inflates. Most virtual particles are being burned and dying all the time. At some point, I imagined the death of these particles, and birth, like the bits of information. Is it possible to use these bits of information, death and birth of particles, particle down, particle up, as bits of information to memorise, in a non-local way, a lot of information, which can be thoughts, which can be emotions, and which can be facts. Something that goes, that is literally, automatically uploaded from our mind, directly there, through the void of our own atoms. (01:22:13)

[Massimo Teodorani] : If we consider that the virtual particles are in a state of entanglement between the particles here, and the particle 50 megaparsec away, then theoretically, you can transmit non-locally information to everyone. So at this point, it's a cosmological model, substantially, allows the universe to grow and to evolve. Because why? Why has the universe to evolve? Because we have a consciousness, and consciousness is the most precious thing that we have. If we have a consciousness, this is not only a product of electrical connection in our brain, there is a meaning. (01:23:06)

[Massimo Teodorani] : The concept of meaning has been completely disregarded by my colleagues. There must be a meaning in our life, in the universe, and in the evolution. So the more information you can get, the more you can learn. And everyone has the right to learn. So I think that this way of memorizing information, which can be uploaded, can be downloaded. And in such a way that we learn all the time, the point is that we are not conscious of this. We, sometimes we have like hypnagogic dreams, visions, and we think, well, this is an hallucination. (01:23:55)

[Massimo Teodorani] : I don't think so. I think that sometimes we catch that thing. Most of the time, we are not able to catch this information, because our mind has been educated to work in a specific way, closing completely that window. Because our society is made to work rationally, and to work with the five senses that we have, and to ignore all the rest. Okay. But this doesn't regard geniuses like Leonardo, Nikola Tesla, and others, who evidently left that window permanently open, and which is the source of so-called genius, which comes from ideas. The person goes there and catches the ideas spontaneously. (01:24:55)

[Massimo Teodorani] : It downloads instantaneously, non-locally. And then, when you have them, you turn it like a machine language of the old computers into compiler language, something to which you give a language. You interpret an algorithm substantially. So, it is something that is of paramount importance, that we should develop. We should make a mathematical model about this. I wanted to do that, but I never found the time to do that. I'm not so specialized in high mathematics to do that, but we would need to do that. (01:25:44)

[Massimo Teodorani] : And it's extremely important. So, this one makes the big... what we call the big library. I'm much more able to write than to speak about this, because there are many details. And it's very much important. (01:26:01)

[Anthony Peake] : Well, one of the things... I mean, I was making quite a considerable amount of notes there, and I quite like the idea of a search for meaning, and we exclude meaning from things, because we are so preoccupied with nihilism, and the idea of the universe is pointless, everything is pointless, there's no meaning in anything, there's no teleological purpose to the universe. Whereas self-evident, there's more and more information suggesting that that is not the case, that the universe does have a teleological purpose, which is to bring about consciousness, to bring itself into existence. But I'm reminded here, when you were talking about the idea of the information field, and the way we could download information from somewhere, of course the work of Irvin Laszlo and his Akashic field, his Akashic record, and of course the idea that it is somehow encoded within the zero-point field, and the zero-point field is the informational field that everything runs upon. (01:26:53)

[Anthony Peake] : And in that I'm reminded of the work of Dr. Bernard Heche, and his ideas in terms of bringing together a theistic, not... you know, in terms of a theistic science of the hyper-consciousness that sits behind everything, the supercomputer that sits behind everything. And again, you know, this is an area that you're moving towards as well, and I think a lot of us in this field, you know, I've moved from atheism to agnosticism, to a kind of an amorphous kind of pandeism almost, and panpsychism, because there seems to be an underlying informational field that seems to be potentially sentient in one way or another. And I think that we have some very interesting ideas here. (01:27:45)

[Anthony Peake] : And one of the things that I really was keen to read out, which was your definition, or your analogy of the wave function, and how we collapse the wave function. I love this, and I'll just read it out because I think it's absolutely excellent. This simply means that the wave function is like a soap bubble that hides inside something we cannot see. The wave function is like the surface of the bubble, and when you pierce it through using a needle, it disappears leaving just a water drop. As soon as we observe elementary particles such as an electron, we suddenly turn the soap bubble wave function into a water drop, the electron found with only one sign of its spin. (01:28:25)

[Anthony Peake] : This is what happens when the wave function collapses. All this means is that in the world of elementary particles, the observer inexorably affects what is observed. And I think that is one of the best analogies, and a very simple, straightforward analogy of what happens when the wave function collapses. It's like a bubble, and we prick it. (01:28:45)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Yeah, yeah. The universe that we have around is full of analogies, is full of metaphors. Remember that I was, many years ago, I was preparing astrophysical essays, and after having these ethnologic experiences, I had a lot of ideas in my mind that came. I was filling tons of papers of calculation of formulas and flow charts or something. And there is a lot of... if you observe the water, you observe the birds, you observe flowers or something or some situation, you discover that they seem sometimes to be synchronic with your questions, inner questions. It seems they answer to you. (01:29:39)

[Massimo Teodorani] : And it's very funny because I remember I was asking myself questions about something, and at the same time I was listening to television, and the voice of the actors were answering to me, at the same time in which I was asking the question, but it was not intentional. So there is a sort of a cooperative universe of the living beings, something that maybe has been testified by the experiments of Roger Nelson, for instance, in a global consciousness project, which shows that moments of high emotional intensity unify everyone. And when you ask a question of great importance that makes your heart beat, someone is listening and is answering. (01:30:46)

[Massimo Teodorani] : After all, the universe is like a big brain. The universe is like a big brain, like if we are the microtubules, the billion microtubules of a bigger brain, everything is like a matrioshka substantially. And the brain represents just a reproduction, in small, of a much bigger universe. If you think analogically, which it's not for a scientist, but I like to think analogically sometimes, and not only digitally, you notice how the, how to say, clustering of galaxies, they follow a reticular structure, like a web-like structure. If you go to look at it and you compare to the synapses in our brain, you see that there is the same shape that reoccur everywhere. (01:31:48)

[Massimo Teodorani] : So there is a, how to say, fractal structure inside the universe, both formally, substantially, and conceptually. And it, the universe listens to us in some way, because I had this experience repeatedly, infinite, many times. (01:32:09)

[Anthony Peake] : Well I think here we come down to, again, using the Bohm and the idea of his work with the nature of holograms. And of course the nature of a hologram is it's almost like Indra's web. In, you know, the old Vedantic argument that Indra has this huge web and it's made of crystals, and within each crystal there is a reflection of the whole web. And of course this is how, how holograms work. You know, you break a hologram apart, you will get a denuded image of the whole. (01:32:40)

[Anthony Peake] : You know, and this is why he was talking about wholeness and the implicate order. And of course I would then expand from this, because in my new book I'm arguing that, you know, there are levels of consciousness that is perceiving the universe. And I have the idea of the idolon, which is our everyday linear consciousness, and overriding that, as I discussed in my book, the infinite, what was it, the infinite universe, I think it was. And the next level above that is the daemon, which is your universal consciousness, your universal self, which is the you that has lived all your lives before and carries those memories forward. (01:33:14)

[Anthony Peake] : Then above that I have what I call the uber daemon, which is the equivalent of the Jungian collective unconscious, that we, you know, and DNA memory, these kind of things. But I've now added a further level to that, which of course is completely conjecture on my part, which I call the godaemon. And the godaemon is effectively what the Kabbalists would call Aureine Soph, what the concept of Brahman within Vedanta, and the idea that there is a singular consciousness and it reduces down, or reduces upwards, you know, we are, we are individuated parts of the next level above. And of course, it's, you know, again, as the famous monologue by Bill Hicks, you know, we are all one consciousness, explaining it's experiencing itself subjectively. (01:34:01)

[Anthony Peake] : And the idea that that collective unconscious is where this information, where this information comes from, where synchronicities come from, why it is that when we need, you know, the young's library angel, when we need information, it's suddenly there for us. And I find the effect I find is extraordinary, is that if I'm searching for a piece of information in my memory banks, what I don't, what I have to do is take my attention away from trying to find that piece of information. And people will notice this, it happens with me a lot when I'm doing these lectures and talks. (01:34:35)

[Anthony Peake] : And when we're doing these interviews, that I will, I will try to remember something. And then suddenly I'll remember it 10 seconds later, when I'm thinking about something completely different. It's as if there's this individuated something that supports us all in one way or another. Sarah, have we had any questions from the members of the group at all? I think I noticed one or two quite interesting ones coming through there. Sarah, have we lost you? (01:35:04)

[Anthony Peake] : We might have lost, sir, in which case I'll mention one of the questions that I thought was very interesting. Paul Moran asks, I'd like to know what Massimo expects from tomorrow's congressional debate on UFOs? Massimo, do you know? (01:35:22)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Is there an incumbence? (01:35:23)

[Anthony Peake] : Apparently so. There's some congressional debate on UFOs tomorrow, it must be happening in the state. (01:35:29)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Oh, it might be, but no, I don't participate. (01:35:34)

[Anthony Peake] : Oh, okay. Sarah's given a link to it, again, which could be very interesting. In which case, that moves us on to an area that we're both very interested in, which is plasma life. You know, the idea that plasma itself is another form of life, another life form. (01:35:53)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Yes. (01:35:53)

[Anthony Peake] : Could we discuss that for a few minutes, your ideas on this? (01:35:56)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Yeah. Well, my idea is just a combination of the work of other scientists, but I like to play with puzzles, okay? So everything starts with the studies of David Bohm. His PhD thesis was about plasmas. What he discovered was that plasma behave like a hole. It's not that every particle behaves separately from the others. If you launch an electric discharge to a particle, all the others, or most of the others, will react. So plasmas, in particular conditions, tend to behave like a hole, okay? (01:36:47)

[Massimo Teodorani] : At the same time, some scientists have discovered that plasmas, which they call plasmons, have characteristics of a form of quantum entanglement. They seem to be a hole that not all of the plasma, but many particles of the plasma can be put in a condition of quantum entanglement, okay? You have this fact. On the other side, you have a group of scientists in 2007 who published an article on the New Journal of Physics, which is a peer-reviewed journal, German and Russian scientists, Sitovich et al., where they discovered that if you make a plasma of electrons and ions interact with the dust particles, you have electrostatic effects that are particularly interesting, and that makes so that the shape of the plasma resembles exactly an helix, exactly like the DNA, okay? (01:38:00)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Not only that, but it's also able to replicate like the DNA. So you see that there is something that is like a life form, literally. So when you think about that, when you think about the cooperative behavior in plasmas, when you think about the Stalin-like lights that sometimes behave in a strange way, they react to stimulation, like a laser beam, for instance. In 1984, Professor Ellingstrand aimed a beam, a laser beam, a powerful laser beam, against one of those lights, and this light reacted, doubling its rate of pulsation, eight times out of nine. So it was a reaction. (01:38:57)

[Massimo Teodorani] : We have to know. We don't know if it is a photon-photon interaction. (01:39:02)

[Anthony Peake] : That has huge implications, doesn't it? Because that's suggesting that, you know, something we touched upon earlier on, you know, the plasma and the reflection of plasma with Bose-Einstein condensates, and of course a laser is a Bose-Einstein condensate. So you were firing effectively a Bose-Einstein condensate at the light and it increased its intensity. Why? (01:39:24)

[Massimo Teodorani] : It increased its intensity, but only for a short time, because the light was pulsing. When the laser was aimed, the pulsation rate increased, doubled. So yes, there was an increase, but it was an increase in the rate, in the frequency of the pulsation. So someone thought that they react, okay? We don't know if this is a physical reaction or if it is an intelligent reaction. People have been fantasizing a lot because, you know, then New Agers speakers call them intelligent lights or something. But something is really very interesting about that, because if I come back to the idea of cooperative behavior of a plasma, and in some cases plasmon kind objects are entangled, and at the same time, when you think about microtubules inside the brain, whose orchestrated behavior gives rise to a consciousness moment, you might think that maybe these lights, in particular conditions, acquire a form of consciousness. (01:40:47)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Maybe increasing this consciousness in the moment in which we aim a laser beam. Maybe the laser beam aims the the wave function, keeping together all the plasma and particles together, to collapse. But this creates a consciousness moment. At this point, we can measure this using high speed cameras. One millionth of seconds of time resolution and see, using time series analysis, mathematically, if there is a regular behavior or some communication. (01:41:30)

[Anthony Peake] : It does all seem to come down to light, doesn't it? You know, the idea of electromagnetic radiation. And as... I can't remember who first came around with the term. I know that Mani, the great founder of Manichaeism, the Iranian religion, he argued that matter was bottled light. And I know that a physicist, I think Sir Julian Jeans, I think, came up with a similar concept. And the idea really that somewhere this is coming down to Bose-Einstein condensates. It's coming down to holography, holograms, the holographic nature of reality. (01:42:17)

[Anthony Peake] : We know one of the big issues at the moment is the idea that the physical universe is an instantiation, as a previous guest on this show, Dr. Andrew Gallimore, calls it, or a simulation. And of course, if it is, then what is the nature of that? And of course, you know, the theory, the holographic universe and the idea of the universe itself being a hologram and created out of information. But of course, then we still come down to the idea of the basis of it all is Bose-Einstein condensates. (01:42:51)

[Anthony Peake] : It's the quantum vacuum. It's drawing information up from the quantum vacuum. So I think what's happening here, I always feel that we're kind of tripping on something quite extraordinarily significant. And if we all got together one day and just thrashed it out over a long weekend, like a huge Venn diagram, we all sat down and contributed our own experiences and our own knowledge to this, we might be able to crack it, which I'd like to believe, particularly because we can't dismiss the experiential. We can't dismiss the experiences of Sarah and other individuals in their lucid dreaming. (01:43:26)

[Anthony Peake] : We know we have this inner world. We have this inner imagery when we're in hypnagogic states, when we're in hypnopompic states. There is something much deeper going on here. And it's something that really makes me profoundly excited. Sarah, you're now back with us. We lost you before. You actually disappeared into the ether. But you are back. I asked the question as to whether there were any other questions from the group. And I did cite the question by Paul Moran about the congressional hearing. (01:43:59)

[Anthony Peake] : But I noticed you'd put up the link on that. Did you find anything else about that? Do you know anything about what's going on there? (01:44:06)

[Sarah Janes] : Not really. I mean, it's been a fairly recent thing, isn't it, that they're admitting that there have been these sightings. And so people have been getting excited about what this might mean. And then you had the exciting storming of Area 51 not that long ago as well, which was pretty interesting. But I think this idea of thought inspiring the material is really interesting. I'm a big Trekkie, big Star Trek fan. And I think that kids watching Star Trek saw devices and they saw the technology that was used in Star Trek. And they went on to kind of develop it and become scientists. (01:44:40)

[Sarah Janes] : A lot of scientists were Star Trek fans when they were children. And I do think that perhaps we just don't have the right instruments yet to measure some of these things that are invisible to the naked eye. But definitely technology is moving apace. So it's likely that we're going to find these sensitive instruments at some point that may reveal the reality of these so far unexplained phenomena. (01:45:04)

[Anthony Peake] : I think that's why it's so important that Massimo is explaining the way he's using scientific measurement devices that he would use in astrophysics on light phenomena that we are perceiving here on Earth. And I think that is profoundly important and very exciting. I'm very interested in that. (01:45:26)

[Massimo Teodorani] : We can add this also some other experiment because we have, with a colleague more than 10 years ago, thought about a possible experiment. I had several persons who approached me and told me about those strange lights. And they didn't want to speak publicly, but they only wanted to speak privately with me, telling that, doctor, these lights are speaking with me in my mind. They were telling me this, but there were more than one person. And there were... one was a professor, by the way. (01:46:07)

[Massimo Teodorani] : So people also of high level of culture. At some point, I collected a private list of these things. And I thought, well, can we demonstrate that there is a communication between these light bulbs, assuming that they can become intelligent at some point? Yes, there is, because we can measure simultaneously these lights, all the parameters, photometric, spectroscopic. We can stimulate these lights with a laser beam, like it was already done in the past. At the same time, we measure, using EEG, the brain of a person that is looking at them and see if any changement of light or color of the light is synchronized with the changement of the peaks of alpha, beta, theta waves of the brain wave, to see if they are synchronized. (01:47:17)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Then we would have a scientific demonstration, quantitative, that really there is a communication between the two things. Because at this point, plasma could be considered an alternative form of life, that in a particular situation, especially when the density of the number of particles is very high, it can become most intelligent. (01:47:44)

[Sarah Janes] : That's so interesting in terms of the potential for there to be extraterrestrial life as well, because it's not life as we recognize it. So it could be, I mean, Star Trek have already done plasma as forms of life, so it wouldn't surprise me that turns out to be a thing. (01:48:00)

[Anthony Peake] : And it could live everywhere. This is quite important here, because one of the things that, again, in my previous book, The Hidden Universe, I was very interested in the concept of plasma life forms. And I've mentioned on a few occasions something that fascinated me, that it says, you know, in the Quran, that human beings were made out of earth, and the angels were made out of fire or light, but the jinn were made out of smokeless fire. And I was very intrigued by this concept of smokeless fire. (01:48:35)

[Anthony Peake] : And if you think about it, smokeless fire could be analogous to plasma. Now, again, Paul, as I say, Paul Eno, in his work in America with psychic phenomena, he has argued that these elementals, what I will call egregorials in my work, seem to draw on and seem to use plasma to manifest themselves within this dimension. And he says it's really fascinating that you will find that they will normally be found when there's running water. So you have a lot of ions free when you've got water running fast. (01:49:14)

[Anthony Peake] : Then you'll have them round electrical substations, again, as if they're drawing the energy from the electrical fields around the substations. And this is an intriguing idea, that somehow there is this other life form that exists within our universe, but seems to need us and our anticipation of them to bring them into existence. Again, I'm arguing quite strongly, you know, the idea of the egregorial entities that use us to come through, to use our imagination to come through. But as Paul Eno argues, there's an alternative here as well, that they feed upon our fear. (01:49:57)

[Anthony Peake] : So they need to be in a position to make us fearful in order to strengthen themselves, which again is an intriguing idea. And if we could somehow find a way of measuring, again, the plasma, the plasma fields and everything else as well, you know, it could be very, very interesting, I think. I remember, Sarah, years ago, one of the things when I was a kid, I was really fascinated by Star Trek. And I remember they were talking about, you know, we're carbon-based life. (01:50:30)

[Anthony Peake] : And I remember there was one particular episode where they had a silicon-based life form, which was this kind of orangey kind of ankylosaurus type thing. So obviously, we've all been terribly influenced by Star Trek in one way or another, you know, we're all frustrated Trekkies. (01:50:46)

[Sarah Janes] : It does influence the way that we view reality, like all the TV and all of the media and the books that we read, they shape our view of the world so much. I know that my life has been shaped from childhood from the things that I was into. And I'm, because I am so interested in dreams, I recognise that some major dream themes that I have might come from a really sort of throwaway advert I saw in the 80s. So, you know, it definitely happens. (01:51:12)

[Sarah Janes] : One thing I wanted to bring up when you were talking about these extrasensory perceptions is I always loved that Dr. Seuss story, Horton, Here's a Who. And I think of life and reality as being, I think that's a beautiful explanation of how there are the, there is these different level, life types on every level. And Horton, this elephant who has extrasensory perception, like fantastic hearing, can hear the language of this mare living on another planet that just exists on a speck of dust or pollen that arrives on a flower. And he's walking around telling everyone, I'm listening to all these people. (01:51:50)

[Sarah Janes] : And I always thought about that. So Horton is like a massive creature. And these people living on this tiny little planet are subject to a different time scale. And I think it's all about scale and attention. Again, it's like we, if we look at a colony of ants, it seems really small, but from within that colony of ants, we can see like the workings and all the things that they go up to. And then down to quantum level, there are all these activities and universes. (01:52:15)

[Sarah Janes] : I mean, it's an incredible as below, as above, so below kind of scenario. Like you say, we're just filtering through different scales, but essentially we're seeing the same patterns manifesting over and over again. (01:52:28)

[Anthony Peake] : Well, as David Bohm himself argued in the explicit and implicate orders, there is a huge order of magnitude between the smallest objects we can possibly measure or perceive and the smallest possible size of the Planck scale, of the Planck length. And it's a massive number of factors. So there could be all kinds of things going on in that area that is a terra incognita to us that we have no idea about, you know, and to be arrogant and to say that I call it electromagnetic chauvinism, the idea that we believe that everything there is, is what we see, because we see a very small part of the electromagnetic spectrum, which stimulates our retina and creates our visual, visual world. (01:53:16)

[Anthony Peake] : But that's arrogance. That is the speciesism. You know, you know, the world of a bee is completely different. You know, we had different perceptions. We perceive the world in a very different way. And on that final point, Massimo, would you like to make some final comments, final thoughts? And then can you let the guys who will be, who either watch this now or will be watching it on my YouTube channel, as to how they can contact you? Your website is extraordinary, by the way. (01:53:42)

[Anthony Peake] : I would strongly advise if you can mention about your website and your work, your papers that are on there. And finally, before we finish, our mutual problems with Wikipedia. (01:53:51)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Yeah. I will speak about the Wikipedia problem at the end. (01:53:58)

[Anthony Peake] : Okay. (01:53:59)

[Massimo Teodorani] : It's only, the final comment is this. We have, if we observe very carefully, reality, we notice that there are some details that escape any possible categorization of our known theory. Okay. And people say, oh, you ought to dismiss them. This is irrelevant. Instead, we have to make a lot of attention to details and to look what's around because sometimes something very important can come out. There are some things that are not yet explained by official science that have been deliberately ignored because they don't make a lot of peer-reviewed publication, for instance. It's not true. (01:54:58)

[Massimo Teodorani] : In reality, they do. And because they violate, in some cases, our physics. Well, what I can say is that there are several physical methodologies. Our standard physical methodology is able to face these kinds of problems. What we need is not more rigor. We already have that rigor. We need only more courage. Okay. And we need more able to be able to switch from a zoom-like vision of reality to a wide-angle vision of reality. We have to be able to shift very quickly from the zoom detail to the big picture. (01:55:53)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Sometimes we have to come out in the big picture because otherwise we are completely lost. So we have also to think in that way. (01:56:02)

Okay. (01:56:03)

[Massimo Teodorani] : But we have a very powerful physics. We have a very powerful Galilean methodology, which can help to collect data. Also, in this kind of phenomenon, we need more courage. And we have to fight against two pulsions. One pulsion is to make a career inside the academic world. And the other one is a pulsion to reach truth. Okay. To approach truth, at least. Well, the person who is attracted to truth sometimes doesn't make a career because the pulsion towards the other way is much bigger because there is a strong spiritual pushing forward. So I invite, especially youngsters, to fight for truth and not to be afraid to face rationally these new problems of physics, opening more your mind, but with no need to make the brain fall from the skull. (01:57:16)

Okay. (01:57:16)

[Massimo Teodorani] : So what can I say? My invitation is if there are people who criticize, who attack this kind of research, you have to completely ignore them because they are afraid that we discover something that could put all what they built so far in a, like a house built on a moving sense. Okay. They are afraid that the foundation of science collapses. I believe that what we know now is perfect. This doesn't put in doubt what we already found. (01:58:01)

[Massimo Teodorani] : What we know is correct. The problem is a problem of completeness. So we have to complete our knowledge and try to think in a way that consciousness is not something that is separated from matter, but was born, is coexisting with matter. This is the problem, the main problem, why our scientists don't want to consider this phenomenon. Okay. Instead we have to have the courage to use the standard physics method to measure this phenomenon and to make with no shame speculations telling that they are speculation and find out what are the way to test this speculation rigorously, but with an open mind. And some colleagues, as I said, are more... some colleagues don't like me. (01:59:11)

[Massimo Teodorani] : This I know very well, but only some. In reality, I was a friend of syncopian people, in particular Professor Tullio Reggio. I was very friend with him. I was a friend with the skepticals, because in some aspect methodologically, I'm also a skeptical guy. Instead of this, in spite of... as soon as my name appeared among the affiliate researchers of the Galileo project, three days after, I was immediately attacked and my Wikipedia website was put in discussion. After 10 years being inducted there, all of a sudden they... oh, it's not relevant. (02:00:00)

[Massimo Teodorani] : And they wanted to put it down. And they created a dramatic situation. I had a discussion with these people. I was very kind, but sharp. I was dismantling them constantly, step by step. And after dismantling, losing the battle, they were inventing a new battle to try to attack me. At the end, the final decision is to delete Wikipedia by Dr. Massimo Teodorani. And so they did. I don't need Wikipedia to exist, okay, from my research. But it's very interesting why this happened. (02:00:44)

[Massimo Teodorani] : This didn't come from my colleagues. This came from people who have not even a scientific preparation, but who use science, standard science, as a religion, like a belief system. If there is someone who tells, well, we can expand science, they're scared. And so they try to attack. These are the standard psychopians. I don't say all skepticals are bad. I'm friends with many skepticals. And I have my own skeptical website on Facebook. In spite of that, some people wanted to put me down, to put my Wikipedia down, and they did it. (02:01:30)

[Massimo Teodorani] : So this is quite interesting. (02:01:33)

[Anthony Peake] : Yeah, it's horrible, isn't it? Because it happened to me as well. I just got an announcement, you know, just to say, you know, we're just, you know, as they give you notice, and they say, you know, you're just going to disappear. And I'm thinking, I'm losing my Wikipedia page, because somebody decides that they don't like what I'm doing. And yet, there are associates of mine that have been on this show that have Wikipedia pages that everybody's left, they're okay. And you've got, as you said, you know, there's a Wikipedia page, as you said, in your article, you know, some 1980s really obscure female porn star has a site on Wikipedia, and nobody objects to that. (02:02:13)

[Anthony Peake] : But people like you and I, we seem to be challenging the status quo in some way. And rather like yourself, you know, I'm a massive skeptic, you know, I used to take the skeptical inquirer, you know, I know the skeptical arguments. And I, in many ways, I sympathize very strongly. You know, there is a lot of craziness out there, there are a lot of sky pilots, and there are a lot of people that are manipulating quantum physics to prove things that are ridiculous, you know, like quantum healing and things like this, you know, things that give us a bad reputation. But what is happening is that people like you and I are being battered because of the the loony tunes and what they're doing. (02:02:53)

[Anthony Peake] : They're using them to destroy us because we are the danger. And it's us that are the danger. And it's us, as you rightly say, you know, the questions that might actually change the paradigm, you know, the Thomas Kuhn idea of scientific paradigms. We're asking the questions and people like yourself, you know, superbly qualified academics, you know, are losing out here. And, you know, you're being criticized by people who haven't got a 10th of your qualifications, your scientific understanding. And this is wrong on so many levels. (02:03:26)

[Anthony Peake] : And it's about time we started fighting back and starting challenging these people. And I spend my time challenging these people. I've been involved in debates and I will stand up to them. You know, I did an event a few years ago in New York and some guy was in the audience, 300 people in there. Some guy stood up and he said, I think you're a charlatan. I'm going to prove it. (02:03:47)

[Anthony Peake] : I'm going to ask you now to explain Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. So I did. And I came back to him and I said, am I right then? And he said, yes. And I said, can I talk to you afterwards about this? He ran away. He wasn't there later on. He didn't want to engage. And this shows the fear that we have. You know, it's the Galileo principle standing in front of the inquisition. You know, you know, it does move, you know. (02:04:11)

[Anthony Peake] : So I'm totally sympathetic with you here. And I think that a group of us need to get together at some stage to start fighting back and challenging back here and saying, you know, we've had enough of this. Will you please listen to us rather than just dismiss us? The work you're doing on lights and the stuff in Norway is extraordinary. It's extraordinarily important. You know, it's incredible. Right. OK, as a final point then, how can people check out your website, contact you, your books, everything else, you know, if you can let us know? (02:04:43)

Yes. (02:04:43)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Oh, yeah. My website is in, not capital letters, but a little letter, massimotudorani.com. You can find it immediately and you will find there articles about science, about physics, about astronomy, about the standard astronomy and physics, but also about anomaly and sometimes also about electronic music, because in my free time, I am an electronic musician. I enjoy with synthesizers on the style of Tangerine Dream, for instance, of Colorshift. (02:05:25)

[Anthony Peake] : Wow, Fader is one of my favorite albums for a long time. (02:05:28)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Yeah, yeah. It's a classic. So that one on my website, you have everything that it recalls everything, including also my musical band camp where I publish my music. And yeah, I have Facebook clearly. And my email, in case you want to ask questions, I will try to answer extensively as best as I can when I have time, is m l t e o d o r a n i dot Alice.it. You can find it. (02:06:30)

[Anthony Peake] : Excellent, wonderful. This has been a fascinating discussion and has fulfilled even more what I was expecting it to be. It's been a fascinating minds. You've got me thinking about so many things now, which I need to listen to you and it's absolutely wonderful. Sarah, would you have any final comments you'd like to make? (02:06:50)

[Sarah Janes] : No, I just thought that was very interesting. I'm looking forward to going to sleep this night and seeing if I have any lucid dreams, trying to work on quantum entanglement. (02:07:00)

[Anthony Peake] : Wonderful. Let us know what your results are. That would be really brilliant. OK, thanks for joining us, everybody, live on Facebook. (02:07:08)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Have a good evening. Thank you very much. (02:07:11)

[Anthony Peake] : You're very welcome. And thank you very much, everybody else, for listening in. And this will be posted on YouTube later this evening. Check it out there. Let people know, let more people know about this programme. We're building up a huge database now of a series of episodes. And I will guarantee if you spend a couple of hours looking to all of the previous episodes that Sarah and I have done, you will see that we're building up a picture. It's like like a painting that we're adding each colour bit by bit. (02:07:39)

[Anthony Peake] : And the painting is getting more and more intense, and it's getting more and more detailed. And then within that painting is going to be the answers. Either that or it's going to be the picture of Drury and Gray. OK, thanks, everybody. We'll speak to you all soon. Thank you. And bye bye. (02:07:51)

[Massimo Teodorani] : Bye. (02:07:53)

[Anthony Peake] : Bye. (02:07:54)

(2025-10-18)

前置き​

仮説 : orb が長時間、浮遊し続ける機序​

要旨​

目次​

アントニー・ピークとマッシモ・テオドラニ博士の対談：主要テーマと洞察​

エグゼクティブ・サマリー​

1. マッシモ・テオドラニ博士の経歴と研究への動機​

2. ヘスダーレン現象：物理学的調査の最前線​

現象の性質​

科学的分析手法​

主な発見と謎​

物理学的仮説​

3. ガリレオ・プロジェクト：UAP研究への新たな科学的アプローチ​

4. 意識、量子力学、そして異常現象​

デカルト的二元論の超克​

デヴィッド・ボームの思想：量子ポテンシャルと内蔵秩序​

意識と物質の相互作用​

夢と変性意識状態​

5. 先進的仮説：プラズマ生命体と「ビッグ・ライブラリ」​

プラズマ生命体の可能性​

宇宙的情報フィールド「ビッグ・ライブラリ」​

6. 科学界の課題と懐疑主義との対峙​

デヴィッド・ボームの量子論が意識と異常現象に与える影響：マッシモ・テオドラニ博士の洞察に基づく理論的考察​

序論：物理学と意識の新たな地平​

第1章：経験的問題としての異常現象 ― ヘスダーレン現象の物理的謎​

ヘスダーレン現象の物理的特徴​

現象解明における物理学的な課題​

UAP現象における「共同創造効果」​

デヴィッド・ボームの理論がもたらす統合的視点​

第3章：デヴィッド・ボームの存在論的枠組み ― 量子ポテンシャルと内蔵秩序​

「量子ポテンシャル」：物質に内在する情報場​

「内蔵秩序」と「展開秩序」：ホログラムとしての宇宙​

第4章：ボーム理論の応用と speculative extensions​

4.1 意識の量子的解釈​

ボーム理論と意識の構造的類似性​

ペンローズ＝ハメロフモデルとの統合​

4.2 「ビッグ・ライブラリ」仮説 ― 量子真空情報場​

仮説の概要​

宇宙に「意味」を与える可能性​

4.3 異常現象の再解釈​

UAPとヘスダーレン現象の新たな視点​

「プラズマ生命体」仮説の論理的構築​

検証可能な未来の実験​

結論：統合的科学への展望​

UAP/Hessdalen 現象の研究​

対談のより大きな文脈：意識と量子力学​

UAP/ヘスダーレン現象の研究​

より深い考察：プラズマと意識の関連性​

科学界への挑戦​

変性意識状態​

1. 変性意識状態（ASC）と多次元的な現実​

1. 変性意識状態（ASC）と多次元的な現実​

2. 明晰夢と入眠時幻覚（Hypnagogia）の体験的検証​

3. 量子力学的な概念との結びつき​

ペンローズ・ハメロフ理論​

1. Orch OR理論の基本概念​

2. 物質と意識の非二元性（Non-Duality）の証明​

3. Orch OR理論をめぐる科学的論争​

バイオフォトンの研究​

1. バイオフォトンとは何か？​

2. バイオフォトンの測定と科学的裏付け​

3. バイオフォトンの研究が示唆する意識と宇宙論的含意​

情報源​

文字起こし​

前置き

仮説 : orb が長時間、浮遊し続ける機序

要旨

目次

アントニー・ピークとマッシモ・テオドラニ博士の対談：主要テーマと洞察

エグゼクティブ・サマリー

1. マッシモ・テオドラニ博士の経歴と研究への動機

2. ヘスダーレン現象：物理学的調査の最前線

現象の性質

科学的分析手法

主な発見と謎

物理学的仮説

3. ガリレオ・プロジェクト：UAP研究への新たな科学的アプローチ

4. 意識、量子力学、そして異常現象

デカルト的二元論の超克

デヴィッド・ボームの思想：量子ポテンシャルと内蔵秩序

意識と物質の相互作用

夢と変性意識状態

5. 先進的仮説：プラズマ生命体と「ビッグ・ライブラリ」

プラズマ生命体の可能性

宇宙的情報フィールド「ビッグ・ライブラリ」

6. 科学界の課題と懐疑主義との対峙

デヴィッド・ボームの量子論が意識と異常現象に与える影響：マッシモ・テオドラニ博士の洞察に基づく理論的考察

序論：物理学と意識の新たな地平

第1章：経験的問題としての異常現象 ― ヘスダーレン現象の物理的謎

ヘスダーレン現象の物理的特徴

現象解明における物理学的な課題

UAP現象における「共同創造効果」

デヴィッド・ボームの理論がもたらす統合的視点

第3章：デヴィッド・ボームの存在論的枠組み ― 量子ポテンシャルと内蔵秩序

「量子ポテンシャル」：物質に内在する情報場

「内蔵秩序」と「展開秩序」：ホログラムとしての宇宙

第4章：ボーム理論の応用と speculative extensions

4.1 意識の量子的解釈

ボーム理論と意識の構造的類似性

ペンローズ＝ハメロフモデルとの統合

4.2 「ビッグ・ライブラリ」仮説 ― 量子真空情報場

仮説の概要

宇宙に「意味」を与える可能性

4.3 異常現象の再解釈

UAPとヘスダーレン現象の新たな視点

「プラズマ生命体」仮説の論理的構築

検証可能な未来の実験

結論：統合的科学への展望

UAP/Hessdalen 現象の研究

対談のより大きな文脈：意識と量子力学

UAP/ヘスダーレン現象の研究

より深い考察：プラズマと意識の関連性

科学界への挑戦

変性意識状態

1. 変性意識状態（ASC）と多次元的な現実

1. 変性意識状態（ASC）と多次元的な現実

2. 明晰夢と入眠時幻覚（Hypnagogia）の体験的検証

3. 量子力学的な概念との結びつき

ペンローズ・ハメロフ理論

1. Orch OR理論の基本概念

2. 物質と意識の非二元性（Non-Duality）の証明

3. Orch OR理論をめぐる科学的論争

バイオフォトンの研究

1. バイオフォトンとは何か？

2. バイオフォトンの測定と科学的裏付け

3. バイオフォトンの研究が示唆する意識と宇宙論的含意

情報源

文字起こし