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1980-12, Cash-Landrum UFO事件 : Colby Landrum の証言インタビュー

· 77 min read

要旨​

AI

キャシュ=ランドラム事件: コルビーの証言

この情報源は、キャッシュ＝ランドラム事件に関する‌‌コルビー・ランドラム氏へのライブインタビューの文字起こし‌‌です。

この事件は、‌‌コルビー氏、彼の祖母、そして友人のベティ・キャッシュ氏‌‌が、飛行物体とヘリコプターに遭遇し、‌‌放射線のような症状に苦しんだ‌‌とされています。

インタビューでは、‌‌事件の詳細な記憶、政府の関与への信念、‌‌そして‌‌経験が彼にもたらした個人的な影響‌‌について、コルビー氏が語っています。また、‌‌当時の調査やメディアの報道に対する彼の見解‌‌も議論されています。

目次​

  1. 要旨
  2. 概要
    1. 1. 事件の核心と目撃者の経験:
    2. 2. 真実の追求と政府への不信感:
    3. 3. 事件の長期的な影響と個人的な動機:
    4. 4. 調査に関する混乱と不確実性:
    5. 結論
  3. 事件の概要
  4. 身体的影響
  5. 道路の損傷と修復
  6. 時系列
  7. 主要関係者
  8. 情報源

概要​

AI

キャッシュ=ランドラム事件: コルビーの証言 ブリーフィング資料

このブリーフィング資料は、「キャシュ=ランドラム事件: コルビーの証言」と題されたポッドキャストの文字起こしに基づいています。ポッドキャストでは、コルビー・ランドラムがクリス・ランブライトとカート・コリンズのインタビューに応じ、1980年12月に発生したとされる未確認飛行物体（UFO）遭遇事件について自身の記憶を語っています。

主要テーマと重要なアイデア/事実

1. 事件の核心と目撃者の経験:​

  • 遭遇の状況: コルビー・ランドラムは、祖母のベティ・キャッシュ、そしてベティ・ランドラムと共に、1980年12月のある夜、ビンゴを探しに出かけた後、ルート2100で明るい物体に遭遇しました。「湖ヒューストンに向かって、松の木のてっぺんから約150フィートほどの高さで、道の左側、北から南へ向かってくる明るい物体が見えました。」(00:10:43)
  • 物体の描写: コルビーは、物体を「ダイヤモンド形」で、下から「炎」が噴き出しているように見えたと描写しています。「私にはダイヤモンド形で、底から炎が出ていました。ただ大規模な炎ではなく、全体が明るいオレンジ色に輝いていました。火が付いているというよりは、むしろ光っているように見えました。」(00:13:42) 彼は物体の大きさを「幅約50フィート、高さ100フィート」と推定しています。(00:12:35)
  • ヘリコプターの存在: 物体の周囲には、コルビーが「ダブルローターのチヌークヘリコプター」と特定した複数のヘリコプターが「約23機」存在し、物体を「護衛している」ように見えました。「彼らはその周りにいて、かなり距離を置いていたと思います。覚えている限りでは、おそらく200～300フィート、もしかしたら100ヤードくらいは離れていたかもしれません。」(00:15:36) 彼は、ヘリコプターが物体を運んでいたわけではないと考えています。(00:15:09)
  • 熱の体感: コルビーは車内でも物体からの熱を感じたと証言しています。「車内でも熱を感じることができました。」(00:18:48) また、祖母がダッシュボードに手を置くと「手の跡」が残ったと語っています。(00:18:56)
  • 事件の直接的な影響: コルビーは、遭遇後「皮膚に水ぶくれ」ができ、「インフルエンザのような症状」を経験し、学校を数日休んだと述べています。「私には顔に水ぶくれができ、インフルエンザのような症状がありました。それで数日学校を休まなければなりませんでした。日焼けしたときのような、インフルエンザの症状が出るような感じです。」(00:19:48) 祖母のベティ・キャッシュも「最悪の状態」だったと語っています。(00:19:48)
  • 権威による否定と家族の苦悩: デイトン警察のL.L.ウォーカー警官とその妻もヘリコプターを目撃していたにもかかわらず、当局はヘリコプターの存在を否定しました。(00:20:26, 00:21:07) コルビーは、UFOハンターズの番組で会った関係者が、その夜その施設に航空機が存在する可能性を「絶対にない」と述べたことに憤りを感じています。「もし映像をご覧いただければ、私の顔全体が真っ赤になっているのがわかります。私はアイルランド人のような気性を持っているので、彼は私を殴りかかりたくなるようなモードに陥らせました。」(00:22:56) コルビーは、この事件が彼の精神に大きな影響を与え、怒りを抱き続けていると語っています。「これは明らかに、このこと全体を通して私の精神に影響を与えてきました。…怒りをコントロールするのが困難でした。」(00:27:50)

2. 真実の追求と政府への不信感:​

  • 政府実験説: コルビーは、遭遇した物体が政府が実験していたものであると強く信じています。「私は、それが政府が実験していた物体だと固く信じています。当時、そこに人はあまりいませんでしたし、その飛行経路は、まだ分譲地などが建設されていなかったので、あまり人には見られなかったでしょう。ただの広い森で、少数の人が住んでいるだけでした。それが私の仮説です。彼らが取り組んでいた何らかの実験で、私たちは偶然それに遭遇してしまったのです。」(00:28:32)
  • 情報の隠蔽: 彼は、政府がこの秘密を隠蔽していると非難しています。「政府は私たちから秘密を隠しています。他の多くの秘密と同じように。」(00:46:25)
  • 情報公開請求への意欲: コルビーは、弁護士を介してプライバシー放棄書に署名し、情報公開法（FOIA）請求を提出することに前向きな姿勢を示しています。「はい、もちろんです。」(00:44:50) これは、真実を知りたいという彼の強い願いの表れです。
  • エイリアン説への懐疑: コルビーは、エイリアンが関与しているという説には懐疑的です。「みんなエイリアンの理論などを聞きたがるんです。…でも、その夜私が何を見たかは知っています。そして、もしグリーンマンを見たことがなければ、私はそれを信じません。」(00:45:53) 彼は、証拠が示されない限り、政府が関与しているという自身の信念を変えることはないと述べています。

3. 事件の長期的な影響と個人的な動機:​

  • 社会からの反応: コルビーは、事件後、友人からのサポートはあったものの、一部の人々からは「愚か者」扱いされ、嘲笑されたと語っています。「私が何を見たかを知っているのに、彼らが私を嘲笑するのは許しません。」(00:27:50)
  • 個人的な苦悩と目的: コルビーは、この事件について公に話すことが「苦痛」であると認めながらも、祖母の「真実を見つける」という強い願いを果たすため、そして娘が将来何が起こったのかを知るために、語り続けています。「祖母が亡くなった後、彼女があまりにも固執していたので、それが私の…彼女が信じていたことへの賛辞だと感じました。戦い続け、実際に何が起こったのかを突き止めようとすることです。」(00:42:40)
  • 支援への期待: 彼は、元パイロットなど、当時を知る誰かが真実を語り、自身と家族が経験したことを理解してくれることを望んでいます。「誰かが知っているはずです。元パイロットか何か、もしかしたら今なら話せる人がいるかもしれません。そして、私と家族が経験したことを理解し、私たちに真実を教えて助けてくれる、そんな心を持ってくれるかもしれません。」(00:43:19)

4. 調査に関する混乱と不確実性:​

  • 事件現場の特定: 事件現場の正確な位置については混乱があり、コルビーは当時の道の開発状況から、それが「約1マイル半から2マイル」の範囲であると推定しています。(00:40:02) 彼は、黒いダンプカーや機材が夜間に来て、その区間の道路を掘り起こし再舗装したという噂についても言及しています。(00:40:22) これは、後にジョン・シューエスラーが、2か月後に損傷した道路を見つけたと主張したことと矛盾する可能性があり、クリス・ランブライトも「何がいつ起こったのか混乱する」と述べています。(00:41:11)
  • 初期調査の不備: コルビーは、当初の当局による調査（放射線検査など）の結果を一度も知らされなかったと述べています。(00:24:48)

結論​

コルビー・ランドラムの証言は、キャッシュ=ランドラム事件が単なるUFO目撃事件以上の、深い個人的な苦悩と政府への不信感に満ちた出来事であったことを浮き彫りにしています。彼の明瞭な記憶、特にヘリコプターの数と種類に関する証言は、事件の信憑性を高めています。

一方で、事件現場の状況や初期調査に関する混乱は、真実の究明をさらに困難にしています。コルビーは、政府が秘密を隠蔽していると確信しており、真実を明らかにするために戦い続ける決意を表明しています。彼の証言は、目撃者が経験する心理的な影響と、透明性の欠如がもたらす長期的な不信感の重要性を示しています。

事件の概要​

AI

キャシュ=ランドラム事件の概要（1980年12月）について、コルビー・ランドラムの証言から得られる情報は以下の通りです。

1980年12月、コルビー・ランドラムは祖母のベティ・キャッシュ、そしてヴィッキー・ランドラムと共に、ビンゴをしにニューカニーへ出かけました。その夜はビンゴが開催されていなかったため、彼らは他の場所を探して車を走らせていました。

‌‌事件の発生場所と目撃された物体‌‌ その後、彼らはハイウェイ2100号線を進み、事件が起こった現場にたどり着きました。コルビーの証言によると、‌‌道の左側（北から南の方向）から、ヒューストン湖に向かって明るい物体が接近‌‌してきました。その物体は松の木の梢のすぐ上、おそらく150フィート（約45メートル）ほどの高さにありました。

コルビーは、その物体を南部の送水塔の頂上の部分と比較し、‌‌幅が約50フィート（約15メートル）、高さが約100フィート（約30メートル）‌‌だと推定しています。形状については、‌‌底から炎のようなものが出ているダイヤモンド型‌‌で、炎というよりは「‌‌非常に明るいオレンジ色から黄色がかった色に光っていた‌‌」と表現しています。子供の頃のコルビーの目には、その物体は「浮いている」ように見え、ケーブルで運ばれている様子はなかったとのことです。

‌‌ヘリコプターの存在‌‌ 物体が出現した当初から、コルビーは周りに‌‌23機の二重ローター式チヌークヘリコプター‌‌が、物体を護衛するように周囲を飛行しているのを数えていました。ヘリコプターは物体から200～300フィート（約60～90メートル）、あるいは100ヤード（約90メートル）ほどの距離を保っていたようです。コルビーは当時ヘリコプターに魅了されており、その数をはっきりと覚えていたと述べています。

‌‌目撃時の状況と反応‌‌ 物体に近づくにつれて、彼らは車を停止させました。コルビーは、物体から発せられる‌‌強烈な熱を車内でも感じた‌‌と証言しており、祖母がダッシュボードに手を置くと、その跡が残るほどだったと述べています。

  • ‌‌コルビー:‌‌ 物体を見たコルビーは‌‌ひどく怖がり‌‌、車のフロアボードにうずくまって時々様子を窺っていました。
  • ‌‌祖母ベティ・キャッシュ:‌‌ 彼女は非常に信心深い女性で、イエス・キリストの再臨だと考えて取り乱していました。彼女は窓から物体を見続けていました。
  • ‌‌ヴィッキー・ランドラム（ベティ）:‌‌ 彼女は祖母ほど怖がらず、車から降りて物体を詳しく調べようとしました。

物体は数分間停止した後、ヒューストン湖の方向へと移動を続けました。

‌‌事件後の影響と調査‌‌ 事件後、コルビーは顔に水ぶくれができ、日焼けのようなインフルエンザの症状が出て、数日間学校を休まなければなりませんでした。祖母のベティ・キャッシュは彼よりもさらに深刻な影響を受けました。

家族は当初、通報することをためらっていましたが、祖母は「何が起こったのか知りたい」と強く主張し、誰が何を言おうと気にしないという姿勢でした。しばらくして、彼らはL.L.ウォーカーというデイトンの警察官に連絡を取りました。ウォーカーとその妻も、数時間後に東の方でヘリコプターを目撃していたことが分かりました。

当局が自宅を訪れ、彼らは‌‌放射線検査を何度も受けました‌‌が、その結果がどうなったのかはコルビーには知らされませんでした。また、コルビーは病院で診察を受けましたが、詳細は覚えていないとのことです。

後にNASAのジョン・シューエスラーが、彼らの話を擁護し、医療面での支援を得るために協力しました。シューエスラーは事件から約2ヶ月後に現場に戻り、道路が損傷していた場所を特定したと主張しましたが、この点については道路が掘り起こされて舗装し直されたという話と矛盾が生じており、混乱を招いています。コルビー自身も、人々が事件後すぐにダンプカーなどでその区間の道路を掘り起こし、再舗装したと聞いたことがあると述べています。

コルビーは、この事件が自分の人生に大きな影響を与え、怒りの感情を抱え、精神的にも影響を受けたと語っています。彼は、‌‌政府が実験中の物体であり、自分たちがたまたまそれに遭遇した‌‌という説を強く信じており、エイリアンの関与には懐疑的です。彼は政府に対し、何が起こったのかを認めるよう求めています。

身体的影響​

AI

キャシュ=ランドラム事件後、コルビー・ランドラムの証言によると、目撃者たちは‌‌身体的な影響‌‌を受けました。

コルビー自身は、事件後、‌‌顔に水ぶくれができ、日焼けのようなインフルエンザの症状‌‌を経験しました。これにより、彼は数日間学校を休まなければなりませんでした。

彼の祖母であるベティ・キャッシュは、コルビーよりもさらに深刻な影響を受けたとされています。「‌‌彼女が最もひどかった‌‌」とコルビーは述べています。

物体が近くにあった際、彼らは‌‌車内でも強い熱を感じていました‌‌。コルビーの祖母がダッシュボードに手をつくと、その跡が残るほどだったと証言しています。

事件後、当局（政府関係者である可能性も示唆されています）が彼らの家を訪れ、‌‌何度も放射線検査‌‌が行われました。しかし、コルビーはその検査結果を知らされていません。また、コルビーは病院で診察を受けましたが、そこで何が言われたのかは覚えていないとのことです。

後にNASAのジョン・シューエスラーが、彼らの話の正当性を主張し、‌‌医療面での支援を得る‌‌ために協力しました。

また、コルビーは爪の隆起などの影響について質問されましたが、事件当時7歳だったため、そのことについては覚えていないと答えています。彼は、事件の多くの部分を「ブロックアウトした」と述べています。

道路の損傷と修復​

AI

キャシュ=ランドラム事件後の「道路の損傷と修復」について、コルビー・ランドラムの証言およびインタビューでの議論から以下の情報が得られます。

‌‌道路の損傷について‌‌

  • 事件当時、コルビーは車内で物体の熱を感じていました。このことから、物体直下の道路が相当な熱にさらされたことが示唆されています。
  • コルビーは、物体を見た場所を、道路の北側にある唯一の店舗から約1.5マイルから2マイルの地点だと推定しています。この店は目印になっていたとのことです。
  • 事件後、‌‌ジョン・シューエスラー‌‌（NASAに所属していた人物）が約2ヶ月後に現場に戻り、‌‌道路に損傷があった正確な場所を発見した‌‌と主張しています。しかし、インタビューアーは、暗闇の中で数百フィートにわたる直線道路の中から正確な場所を特定することの難しさについて疑問を呈しています。
  • インタビューアーのクリス・ラムブライトは、祖母（ベティ・キャッシュ）が事件後数週間はその地域に戻らなかったと語っていたことにも言及しています。
  • 熱が非常に強かったとコルビーが証言しているため、もしそうであれば、事件後まもなくその場所の草木が枯死していたはずだという推測もなされていますが、コルビーはこれについて直接の記憶を述べていません。

‌‌道路の修復について‌‌

  • コルビーは、事件後まもなく、地元の人々が「‌‌夜間に黒いダンプカーや重機が来て、その区間の道路を掘り起こし、再舗装した‌‌」と話しているのを聞いたと証言しています。
  • この「道路が切り刻まれて持ち去られた」という話は、クリス・ラムブライトも以前から耳にしており、コルビーの祖母（ベティ・キャッシュ）も彼に同じことを話していたとのことです。
  • この修復の時期に関して混乱が生じています。ジョン・シューエスラーが事件から約2ヶ月後の2月末頃に道路の損傷箇所を発見したと主張している一方で、道路が掘り起こされて再舗装されたという話があり、この二つの情報が矛盾しているか、あるいは道路の撤去がシューエスラーの調査後に行われた可能性も示唆されています。
  • コルビー自身は、長期間にわたり事件現場の道路を避けていたと述べています。「おそらく長い間その道を通りませんでした。今でもそこを通ると昔の記憶が蘇るかもしれません」と語っています。
  • 後にコルビーは、カリフォルニアの別の請負業者と共同で番組を作成し、‌‌道路が掘り起こされたとされる場所のコアサンプル（地層サンプル）を採取した‌‌ことがあります。

要するに、事件後に目撃された場所の道路に損傷があったという主張があり、その後にその損傷箇所が撤去され、再舗装されたという話が関係者の間で語り継がれていますが、その詳細な時期や、誰がどのような目的で行ったのかについては、情報が錯綜している状況です。コルビーは、この事件全体が政府による実験の結果であり、政府がその真実を隠していると強く信じています。

時系列​

AI

  • 1980年12月（正確な日付不明）

    • 夜の遭遇: ベティ・キャシュ、ヴィッキー・ランドラム、そして当時7歳のコルビー・ランドラムが、ニューカニーへビンゴをしに出かけるが、ビンゴは開催されていなかった。
    • UFO目撃: 帰り道、国道2100号線沿いで、3人は上空に「ダイヤモンド形」で「燃えているように光る」未確認物体を目撃する。コルビーは物体から炎が出ているように見えたと述べているが、実際は「燃えているというよりは光っていた」と表現している。
    • ヘリコプターの護衛: コルビーは、物体を囲むように「23機の二重ローターのチヌークヘリコプター」を目撃し、その数を数えたと証言している。ヘリコプターは物体から200～300フィート離れていた。
    • ヴィッキーの恐怖: ヴィッキー・ランドラムは物体を「キリストの再臨」と考えていたため、非常に恐れていた。
    • ベティの接近: ベティ・キャシュは車を降りて物体をさらに詳しく見に行った。
    • 熱の影響: コルビーは車の中からでも物体の熱を感じたと証言しており、後になってダッシュボードにヴィッキーの手形が残っていたことを発見する。
    • 物体とヘリコプターの移動: 物体は数分間停止した後、ヒューストン湖の方角へ移動を続けた。コルビーは後部座席からその動きを見ていた。
    • 体調不良の発症: 遭遇後1～2日以内に、コルビーは顔に水ぶくれ、インフルエンザのような症状、日焼けのような体調不良を経験し、数日間学校を休むことになった。ベティは最も重い症状に見舞われた。
    • L.L.ウォーカーとの接触: 家族はL.L.ウォーカーというデイトンの警察官に連絡を取る。ウォーカーとその妻も、事件の数時間後、東の方角でヘリコプターを目撃していた。
    • 当局の関与: 家族が当局に連絡した後、政府関係者らしき人々が何度か家を訪れ、放射線検査を行ったが、結果は家族に知らされなかった。
    • 病院での診察: 3人は病院で診察を受けたが、コルビーは具体的な内容を覚えていない。
    • メディアとNASAの関与: 地方ニュースがこの事件を報じ、当時NASAに所属していたジョン・シューシュラーが家族の支援と事件の解明のために介入した。

  • 遭遇後数週間

    • 道路の損傷と修復: ヴィッキー・ランドラムは、事件が起こった道路の一部が掘り起こされ、再舗装されたと証言している。コルビーも、住民が夜間にダンプカーや重機がその地域に入っていくのを目撃したと述べている。

  • 遭遇後2ヶ月（1981年2月22日頃）

    • ジョン・シューシュラーの調査: ジョン・シューシュラーが現場を訪れ、道路の損傷箇所を発見し、正確な場所を特定したと主張した。

  • 数年後

    • コルビーへのいじめ: コルビーは、事件について揶揄されたり、馬鹿にされたりする経験をした。これにより、彼は怒りを募らせ、感情のコントロールが困難になった。
    • ヘリコプターへの関心: コルビーはヘリコプターへの恐怖は抱かず、むしろ興味を持ち続けた。
    • NASAとの関連性の推測: コルビーは、ジョン・シューシュラーがNASAに長年勤務していたことから、彼が事件について何かを知っていたのではないかと推測した。
    • 訴訟の検討: 弁護士ピーター・ガーソンが訴訟を検討したことがあった。
    • 政府に対する確信: コルビーは、目撃した物体は政府が実験していたものであると確信しており、政府がその真実を隠していると考えている。
    • 真実を求めるコルビー: コルビーは、祖母の死後、祖母の信念を受け継ぎ、真実を突き止めることが自分の使命だと感じている。

  • 現在のコルビー・ランドラム

    • パイプ監督としての仕事: コルビーは現在、パイプ監督として働いている。
    • 娘への思い: 彼は自分の娘が成長したときに何が起こったのかを知り、真実を見つけてほしいと願っている。
    • 情報公開請求への協力意思: コルビーは、情報公開請求に協力する意思があることを表明している。

主要関係者​

AI

  • コルビー・ランドラム (Colby Landrum): 本事件の主要証人の一人。事件当時7歳。未確認飛行物体とヘリコプターを目撃し、その後の体調不良に苦しんだ。現在は大人になり、パイプ監督として働いている。事件の真実を政府が隠していると強く信じており、亡くなった祖母のために真実を追求することを自身の使命としている。怒りをコントロールすることに苦労した経験もあるが、娘のために真実を知りたいと願っている。

  • ヴィッキー・ランドラム (Vicki Landrum): コルビーの祖母であり、事件の主要証人の一人。非常に信心深く、物体を「キリストの再臨」と信じて恐れていた。事件後、ダッシュボードに手形が残るほどの熱を感じた。彼女は政府に真実を明らかにすることを強く望んでいた。

  • ベティ・キャシュ (Betty Cash): 事件の主要証人の一人。ヴィッキー・ランドラムの友人。未確認飛行物体に最も近づき、最も深刻な身体的影響を受けた。コルビーの証言によると、彼女はヴィッキーほど恐れておらず、物体を調査するために車から降りた。

  • マーティン・ウィリス (Martin Willis): ポッドキャスト「Podcast UFO」のホスト。コルビー・ランドラムへのインタビューを行った。

  • クリス・ラムライト (Chris Lambright): 本事件の調査に携わった人物。ポッドキャストに出演し、コルビーに質問を投げかけた。

  • カート・コリンズ (Curt Collins): 本事件の調査に携わった人物。ポッドキャストに出演し、コルビーに質問を投げかけた。事件に関する最近の研究の多くを行っている。

  • L.L.ウォーカー (L.L. Walker): デイトンの警察官。彼と彼の妻も、事件の数時間後、東の方角でヘリコプターを目撃している。コルビーは彼のことを「正直な男」と評している。

  • ケン・デフォー (Ken DeFore): コルビーが住む地域の保安官の隊長で、コルビーの少年野球のコーチでもあった。コルビーは彼を「立派な男」と評価しており、法執行機関全体に対しては特に問題を感じていない。

  • コーナー・サラン (Corner Saran): UFOハンターズの番組でコルビーと共演した人物。事件の夜に当該地域に航空機は存在しなかったと主張し、コルビーの怒りを買った。

  • ジョン・シューシュラー (John Schuessler): 当時NASAに所属していた人物で、キャシュ＝ランドラム事件の家族を支援した。家族の証言を広め、医学的援助を得ようと試みた。事件発生の約2ヶ月後に現場を調査し、道路の損傷箇所を発見したと主張している。

  • ピーター・ガーソン (Peter Gerson): キャシュ＝ランドラム事件を法廷で扱おうとした弁護士。

  • ロバート・ジマーマン (Robert Zimmerman): 事件を報じた写真家。キャシュ、ランドラム夫妻、コルビーの3人を「非常に信頼でき、正直な証言をした」と評している。

  • ペギー (Peggy): ポッドキャストのリスナーで、ライブコールでコルビーに質問した。

情報源​

動画(52:10)

Rare Live Interview with Colby Landrum, Cash-Landrum UFO Inc

展開

（以下は "Rare Live Interview with Colby Landrum, Cash-Landrum UFO Inc" と題された podcast の文字起こしです。）

We have Colby Landrum recorded live with Chris Lambright and Curt Collins. Coming right up. (00:07:32)

[Martin Willis] : Colby, you there? (00:08:55)

[Colby Landrum] : Yes, sir, sure am. (00:08:57)

[Martin Willis] : Hey, Colby Landrum, how you doing? I'm doing great. How y'all doing? Colby, I'd like you to meet on the show with us right now is Chris Lambright and Curtis Collins. (00:09:08)

[SPEAKER_03] : Nice to meet you. I guess I missed you the two times back in 1985 that I actually went down and talked to your grandmother. So it's nice to talk to you after all this time. Yeah, it is, sir. (00:09:18)

[Colby Landrum] : Nice. Big welcome from Texas. (00:09:19)

[SPEAKER_03] : I'm actually up in West, the town that blew up not long ago. Oh, really? So I'm still here, yes. I was in Dallas at the time, but I'm in West right now. Right. (00:09:30)

[SPEAKER_04] : This is Kurt. I found out that your grandmother was from Mississippi. That's where I'm from. So, you know, we might be cousins. Could be. (00:09:39)

[Martin Willis] : So I'm just going to sit back here and let you two, Curtis and Chris, both of you, both did some work on the case. And, you know, Colby, I think, you know, this is kind of a rare appearance. You haven't been, I know you're on UFO Hunters, but I don't know if you've ever been interviewed before. And I think basically we'd like to hear in your own words what happened, what you recall that happened, not what other people told you, but what you recalled what happened back in December of 1980. (00:10:14)

[Colby Landrum] : OK, first of all, my grandmother and I, Betty Cass, we all took off on excursions. They always did. They like to play bingo a lot. So we traveled over to New Caney, to a place they thought was having bingo. And at that particular night, there was no bingo. So they drove around trying to find other places. And then we tended to make our way down 2100 to the actual site of the occurrence. After that, we seen a bright object coming from the left side of the road, which would be north to south, going towards Lake Houston, just above the treetop of the pine trees right there, probably 150 foot or so. (00:11:03)

[Colby Landrum] : I mean, the object was a little higher, of course, but we come to a stop, you know, didn't know what it was. And I remember grandma talking about it was coming, that Jesus was coming back or whatever. She's real religious. So, I mean, kind of scared me. I crawled on the floorboard and my grandmother continued looking out the window in which Betty Cass, she took it a little bit further and wanted to get out and investigate. What else did y'all want to know? (00:11:46)

[SPEAKER_04] : Well, I've got a question for you, excuse me, about, can you tell us, can you give us a description of, you know, of the light? And, oh, you know, whatever you can say about it, you know, compared to any object and maybe tell us about the way it moved, if you can remember. (00:12:02)

[Colby Landrum] : I don't know if y'all have them up there, but down here in the south, we have the water towers, you know, the four-legged water towers that feed the main cities and everything. And the object back then, I was comparing it to the size of, you know, the top of the water tank, which I don't really, probably now knowing that I work in refineries and everything, that it seemed to be about a, I don't know, 100 foot across, probably 100 foot up and down. No, it was probably 50 foot across and 100 foot up and down. (00:12:42)

[SPEAKER_03] : Yeah, I mean, that was a question that has been somewhat confusing over time, is to get an idea of exactly whether the comparisons to water towers meant from the ground to the very top or just the tank part up at the top. But, you know, I've always been wondering how wide would it be when it came down over the roadway. So if you can, you know, go ahead and describe that, because this is an important thing. (00:13:09)

[Colby Landrum] : One more time, please, sir. (00:13:12)

[SPEAKER_03] : I've, there's been some confusion, I think, over the years with exactly how large the object itself would have been. So if you recall, and I think from what Kurt and I have talked about, and I think it may be correct that you seem to be the person who, even at the young age, seemed to identify it as kind of diamond shaped or have some kind of a shape that was elongated like that. So we thought it's some... (00:13:38)

[SPEAKER_03] : Go ahead, just keep continuing. We're here to hear what you have to say. (00:13:42)

[Colby Landrum] : Well, it was, like I say, it was... Look, to me, it was like a diamond shape with flames coming out the bottom, not just massive flames, you know, just the whole thing was radiated bright orange. And it actually looked like it was more glowing than on fire. So, I mean, it was... As a kid, that seems to stick in your head, you know, a lot of things you don't remember. But the specifics and everything about that object, I do remember. (00:14:13)

[SPEAKER_03] : Yeah. And in fact, that's exactly what we want to hear. The things that you remember, even at that young age, if you were in the car and what you saw, when you say it seemed to be more glowing, do you mean you could actually see the entire outline of the entire object? Yes, sir. See, that's a very important point that I think everybody wants to understand. Right. (00:14:37)

[Colby Landrum] : It was glowing, very bright orange, yellowish. And, of course, being at that age, I was amazed with helicopters and planes, just like any other normal child. And I was counting the helicopters around it, which at the time I didn't know what they were. But later on, I found out they were double rotor Chinook helicopters that were whatever they were doing, transporting. And I know they wasn't carrying it. I don't know that. (00:15:09)

[Colby Landrum] : But... Yeah, if I recall, though... (00:15:14)

[SPEAKER_03] : Yeah, my apologies. I was just saying, if I recall, I think from what you described just now, when the thing, when the object came in over the trees and basically paused over the roadway, there weren't any helicopters over it at that moment. That so if you're correct, they were never over it. (00:15:36)

[Colby Landrum] : They were around it and stayed a pretty good distance away, I'd say. As close as I can remember, probably they stayed at least two or three hundred feet, if not a hundred yards away from it. You know, it could be longer or shorter. But just to my memory, they were, you know, they were all the way around it. I don't know. None of them was below it, of course. You know, there might have been one or two way above it. (00:16:04)

[SPEAKER_04] : I've got a lot of questions about, you know, even more about the craft and the helicopters. But go ahead with your story and then we're probably going to back up to a few points. (00:16:14)

[Colby Landrum] : Like I said, we paused there for a minute and I can't remember the exact time. It seemed an eternity to me because I was terrified in the floorboards. But, you know, they continued. My grandmother was looking through the windshield and she was frantic, you know, thinking about the second coming of Christ. And like I said, Betty had got out of the car to investigate more, look at it, whatever. Grandmother was telling her to get back in the car. (00:16:45)

[Colby Landrum] : Well, of course, I'm terrified on the floorboard and I'd peak out every now and then. (00:16:48)

[SPEAKER_03] : That was it. It was interesting you mentioned that because we were we were curious whether the fact that you had been down low and would peak up every now and then might have actually, the dashboard, for example, may have in fact blocked some of the brightness and given you a little better look at the thing just because of the nature of the fact that you were short. Now, I was curious, when do you think, if you remember, did you get the best look at the object or the shape of it or the longest time? (00:17:21)

[Colby Landrum] : I would say when we were approaching and at the very beginning, I was looking and like, of course, back then there was no car seats or anything and we stood up in back of the seats and everything. So my mom had always told me when we passed a cop, you know, we were outlaws or she was, that she would tell me get in the floorboard so she can get a ticket or whatever. So that was just like a natural routine for me. (00:17:48)

[SPEAKER_03] : Yeah, I would say that makes absolute sense when you think back as you were approaching it is when you would really have a more of a chance, probably less frightening at that instant and get a better look at it. But go ahead and let Kurt ask some of the questions. He's been doing most of the research recently on double checking things that have been said afterwards or things that have come out trying to get down to the real truth of what went on. Absolutely. (00:18:13)

[Colby Landrum] : That's what I want. (00:18:15)

[SPEAKER_04] : Well, yeah, I want to hear more of your story. I get the impression that, and a lot of people don't realize that, that when you first saw it, that wasn't apparently the end of the story. You continued to see it as you traveled. Is that right? And I'd like to hear about the rest. (00:18:32)

[Colby Landrum] : As we paused, you know, like I said, the craft paused for a few minutes and it carried on. And as we went down the road, it kind of made a path towards Lake Houston. And, you know, I'll come up out the seat once we got some distance. And, you know, you could feel the heat off of it, even inside the car. Like I said, my grandmother, when she put her hands on the dash, we actually left a hand imprint on it. We found out later on, we didn't know it at the time, but I don't know where the car is now. (00:19:06)

[Colby Landrum] : I wish I had my hands on it. But, um, like I said, we continued to travel home. And, um, I think they contemplated about, um, once we got home, they contemplated about calling somebody and letting them know. And, and, you know, of course, back then everybody was going to think that we were complete morons or whatever. So they were skeptical about that. And my grandmother, she was always the adamant woman about, um, you know, she, she wanted to find out what it was and she didn't care what people thought. And, um, so, you know, the days, like a day or two went on. (00:19:48)

[Colby Landrum] : I know my grandmother and I, Betty, she got the worst of it. I actually had blisters on my skin, on my face. I had, um, uh, flu-like symptoms. And I had to miss a few days of school out of it. It's almost like a sunburn kind of feeling sick. You know, you get flu symptoms when you get sunburned. And, uh, after a while, I believe they contacted L.L. Walker and it was crazy because him and his wife all actually also seen it. (00:20:26)

[Colby Landrum] : They were taking a trip or whatever. (00:20:28)

[SPEAKER_03] : He was an officer in Dayton. It's interesting you bring him up because I had just pulled up some information, I think, from John's book. And Kurt and I had talked about this before that I, I just had an odd feeling about the fact that he saw those helicopters a couple of hours or so later, but further back towards the east, meaning just not, not down south and not flying out over the coast. And, and in fact, if you wanted to try to avoid as much populated areas you could, making a U-turn, so to speak, and heading back somewhere over east would have been the place to go. (00:21:07)

[SPEAKER_03] : So it really, it really negated the whole idea that no one else saw the helicopters or that they weren't somewhere and nothing was flying that night. (00:21:14)

[Colby Landrum] : And it just that straight up man, you know, he don't lie about anything. He's still the same way to the day. He's just a little older and sicker. (00:21:26)

[SPEAKER_03] : But, um, I mean, I think it's, it's a question that I've always had to wonder how you would feel about not, not law enforcement in general, but the fact that not just you and your grandmother and Betty, but here's another police officer who he and his wife both saw the helicopters and everyone who's supposed to be investigating it seems to just be claiming, well, nobody had any helicopters out, nobody could find them, which isn't in effect calling everybody. (00:21:59)

[SPEAKER_03] : Well, I don't know what you'd call that, but it kind of wonders, it makes you wonder how confident you would feel with anything that you're told by authorities these days. I mean, I don't know if you've had feelings after that. (00:22:12)

[Colby Landrum] : I've got, you know, like, um, uh, our sheriff captain Ken DeFore over here now. He's kind of like, he was my little league coach also. And, you know, he's, he's an excellent man. He helped me out. I've helped him out on, uh, Echo search, uh, several times. He's a very standup man. You know, I had no problem with law enforcement other than Mr. Corner Saran that, uh, I did the show with, uh, UFO hunters. I don't care too much for him because, uh, that day in particular, I was ready to climb on him, Texas style. (00:22:48)

[SPEAKER_03] : I would like you to elaborate on that, if you don't mind my asking. (00:22:56)

[Colby Landrum] : Well, we come face to face, you know, they did their little skit and everything, and there wasn't no skit. It was just, I didn't even know they was bringing the man in. And he stood out there and they asked him, was there any possibility that there was any aircraft in that facility that night? And he said, absolutely not. If you look at the film, you can see my whole face gets red. I've got a temper like Irishman. So, um, you know, he sent me into a mode that I was ready to just whoop the, you know, what out of him. (00:23:30)

[Colby Landrum] : So, um, I had to reframe myself on that. (00:23:33)

Yeah. (00:23:34)

[SPEAKER_03] : You would, you would think at that stage, you would find a better way to express that knowing that he's in effect calling you and everyone else. They're either liars or badly mistaken or something to that effect. (00:23:46)

[Colby Landrum] : You know, and there was also pilots that come out later on and said, yes, they were in a mission in the area in that night, but they couldn't elaborate on it. So, I mean... (00:23:56)

[SPEAKER_04] : My sound just went dead. Are we still there? Yes, sir. Okay. Yeah. Colby, I want to come back to, uh, about the helicopters in a minute. Just kind of continue with, with the story in order. Um, okay. You, you talked about a little bit about the way that you felt. I want to know, um, take, um, you know, what else you know about, about the other, you know, the other witnesses being sick and anything you remember at the hospital and... Oh, I got one. Go ahead. (00:24:23)

[SPEAKER_04] : Go ahead. (00:24:23)

[Colby Landrum] : I remember, you know, after a while, you know, they'd contacted the authorities and everything, and I can't remember exactly how the steps went. You know, I should have looked back at my manuscripts and all that a little bit more, but, you know, I can remember as a kid, them coming out to the house several times. I don't know who they were, whether they were government officials or what. They would come out and test us for radiation every so often. (00:24:48)

[Colby Landrum] : And I don't know what they come up with. I've never seen any results on that. You know, I was told to be careful because somebody could scoop me up and take me away. So, you know, I was always nervous about that. And then, um, you know, we went to the hospital, got checked out, and I can't remember exactly what they said. (00:25:11)

[SPEAKER_04] : Well, that's okay. Just, just what you remember. Um, well, at the hospital, the way that the story's been told, and, and really, I get the kind of feeling that there's what happened to you, your story, and then the story that's been on TV. So, and I want you to straighten that out at some point, but, but do you remember how the, uh, the story really got out? (00:25:36)

[Colby Landrum] : Um, I can't remember as, like, who was contacted. I think a local news was contacted or something like that. And, um, at some point, Mr. John Schuessler, at the time, he was with NASA, come in to help us out. And, um, I guess he was trying to advocate our story and get it out there, you know, so we could just come up with some kind of conclusion of what's wrong and, you know, get some help on the medical part of it. Because, you know, my family wasn't rich. (00:26:09)

[Colby Landrum] : So, I mean, we just want to know what happened because, you know, I mean, I thought my whole life, and still do to the day sometimes, if somebody says the wrong things about it, you know, that right there pretty much built my temper up. And, you know, if somebody comes across the wrong way, I can't tell you what happened today because, you know, I still have feelings about it. (00:26:36)

[SPEAKER_04] : I just, um... Well, um, yeah, I don't know how comfortable you are talking about those feelings, but I, you know, certainly understand why you've got years of frustration and, you know, it may have contributed to the, you know, the downfall of the health of your grandmother and Betty. So, um, let's see, I wanted to ask you too about, well, um, what was you, and you're bound to remember this because it lasted the rest of your life. How did, how did this affect the way people related to you, um, you know, did, uh, were you treated more as a celebrity or did you get picked on? (00:27:15)

[SPEAKER_04] : How did that go? (00:27:15)

[Colby Landrum] : No, I wasn't a celebrity. It was, uh, you know, I had my friends. I had a lot of great friends there in Dayton and, uh, still to the day support me 100 percent, but there was also the other ones that wanted to play, you know, mullet type and, uh, come at me and mouth off. Back then, I didn't care if they was six foot seven, if they said it in the wrong place in the wrong time, I was trying to get on them. And it just built a lot of anger inside me, you know, because I know what I've seen and for them to ridicule me, it ain't gonna happen here. (00:27:50)

[Colby Landrum] : So, I mean, it's obviously affected me mentally throughout all of this, you know, even to the day what my temper was. I had a hard time controlling it and, you know, a lot of reason I want to get this story out there is so my daughter, when she grows up, you know, she'll know exactly what happened and maybe hopefully find the truth somewhere in there. (00:28:13)

[SPEAKER_04] : Well, I wanted to ask you, well, I've got a thousand questions for you, but as far as the truth, have you ever come across anything that you thought was a good lead in the source of, and also just what do you think the object was? (00:28:32)

[Colby Landrum] : I'm a firm believer that it was an object that the government was experimenting on and at that time there wasn't very many people there and that flight path, you know, they probably wouldn't have seen too many people because it wasn't built in the subdivisions and all that yet. It was still just wide open woods, a few people out there. So, I mean, that's my theory on it. There is some kind of experiment they was working on and we just haven't come in contact with it. (00:29:08)

[SPEAKER_04] : Go ahead. Oh, the other part of that was did you have any ideas from, or maybe, you know, any particular base it was from? I mean, you know, have you gotten just any clues whatsoever? (00:29:28)

[Colby Landrum] : Well, there was a theory that they come up with when we did that one show that it had come off an aircraft carrier and kind of went through up around, I don't know if you're familiar with Texas, but the Orange Beaumont area, maybe even on the Louisiana side, it made like a north loop off the Gulf, kind of tracked back to the west and then come back up. You know, I don't know if they was trying to stay in the secluded areas or what, but, and I don't know if that's just something that they dreamt up. (00:30:02)

[Colby Landrum] : I don't know where they got that information from, but I mean, it seems feasible that they were going to carry it somewhere from aircraft carrier in the Gulf, but I have no proof to, you know, back me up on that. (00:30:18)

[SPEAKER_04] : Well, we're looking for clues. And one of the things that might help us, if it was a project and, you know, everybody's got their own theory, do you remember enough about the way it looked to describe how it flew? Because if we knew something about what was propelling it, you know, apparently there was no wings, just, you know, how did it move? It was, it was floating. (00:30:43)

[Colby Landrum] : And I mean, in my eye as a child, it was floating. And now, like I say, floating or being carried by cables, but I've never seen no cables or nothing. So I'm saying it was, I don't know what the word that is, not technical word, but it was actually just kind of floating along. And it looked like the helicopters were pretty much escorting. (00:31:07)

[Martin Willis] : Colby, I'm sure we're going to talk about the helicopters, because that's kind of a fascinating part of this. But are you willing to take calls if we have them come in? Because I have a number here I can give out. Yeah, I sure will. Okay, the number here is 603-967-4030. If anyone wants to give a call, that's 603-967-4030. Let's, can we talk a little bit about the helicopters? Because I've heard numbers sometimes you hear that there was like a hundred of them or there was 15 of them and... Tell us what you think. (00:31:46)

[Colby Landrum] : There was 23 Chinook helicopters and I can tell you for a fact because I counted them. And I do remember that distinctly. Like I said, I was fascinated with helicopters. So that's, you know, that's pretty much what I was looking at. (00:32:03)

[Martin Willis] : And there's Chinook, you're pretty sure? (00:32:05)

[Colby Landrum] : Yes, sir. It was a double row of Chinooks. I didn't know that then, but after years of research and looking into it, yeah, that's definitely what they were. (00:32:14)

[SPEAKER_04] : I've got a question about, about the helicopters. And, you know, I like, I've heard a lot of the things from the, you know, reading, reading John Schuster's book and the magazine articles. So I really want to hear your side of it. But I have heard that, that helicopters were observed at, at when you were coming home to Dayton. Do you remember anything about that? I mean, that means there could have been even more than the 23 you counted. I don't remember that, that part. (00:32:45)

[SPEAKER_04] : Okay. That's fair enough. I wouldn't have ever, for a long time. (00:32:51)

[Colby Landrum] : Oh, well, you know, that's... I mean, I remember seeing them. I remember seeing the helicopters with the object that we got like on 1960, headed back towards Dayton. But, you know, being all frantic and everything, I was kind of up and down. (00:33:06)

[SPEAKER_04] : So... Well, that's a good, that's a good point. I'm glad you mentioned that because some of the stories make it sound that, that fear continued and you were afraid of helicopters later. And, and it just, you know, I got the impression that you might've had a post-traumatic stress. Do you think that's fair to say? (00:33:24)

[Colby Landrum] : Oh, that's definitely fair to say. And it stresses me out. You know, a lot of just talking about it and people, you know, ridiculing. So yes, that's something that'll stick with me the rest of my life. But as far as fear of helicopters, no, I'm still fascinated with them. The helicopters wasn't what I was scared of. You know, I kind of, I don't know, a sense of safety maybe, because I thought maybe our government was taking care of the situation, if it was one. (00:33:54)

[SPEAKER_04] : Well, that's another, another question. And, you know, at your age, you may not have a memory of this, but I want to ask the question. Your grandmother from, and I've heard recording her in her own words, originally thought that this might be the second coming. And I don't know if you felt the same way, but, you know, at what point did you change your mind to think that the object itself was military rather than, you know, that this was some kind of spiritual event? (00:34:20)

[Colby Landrum] : I never, I didn't know. My grandmother, she's tend to carry things a little far. She was very biblical and religious. So, I mean, I never really thought that it was a second coming. But at the time, as a child, you know, you're listening and you're terrified. You're not sure what's going on. You're not sure. You don't even know about military. (00:34:42)

[SPEAKER_04] : Well, getting back to the UFO again, because I'm, you know, that's the, you know, other than the injuries, it's really the star of the story. I just want to know, just when you came up on it, you know, if you compare the brightness, was this like a, was this like a sunset or an explosion? Just what, can you say what it kind of looked like? (00:35:05)

[Colby Landrum] : With the object? (00:35:08)

[SPEAKER_04] : Right. Just the impression, because, you know, with the fear that it inspired, you know, I'm just curious as to what kind of, you know, just what it looked like. I mean, I wasn't there and hoping you could tell us. (00:35:24)

[Colby Landrum] : It just kind of looked like it was on fire in a sense. But it kind of looked like his own fire glowing with fire coming out of the bottom. (00:35:38)

[SPEAKER_04] : Okay. (00:35:40)

[Colby Landrum] : And not really a fire, just glowing, more of a glowing. (00:35:45)

[SPEAKER_03] : You know, Kurt, I'd like to ask him a question since we're talking about the object. And a little while ago when he was talking about being on the floorboard and he made the comment that he could feel the heat from the object, even inside the car where he was, which definitely suggests that right underneath the object should have been that much, you know, that much hotter. But there's always been some question over where exactly on that, I think it's a five or seven mile straight stretch of road, it actually occurred. (00:36:21)

[SPEAKER_03] : And of course, the discussion about some claims that the road may have been pulled up and taken away. But then John, when he got involved a couple of months later, had written that they went back out there and found the exact place on the road. But I drove down there when I went to talk to your grandmother. And I realized then that, like you were saying, it's not developed. And there's hardly any lights and no nothing. (00:36:46)

[SPEAKER_03] : And at nine o'clock at night under those circumstances, man, I don't know how easy it would be to really know exactly what 100 foot stretch of that road, you know, all of this had taken place on. And I was curious if you over the years, ever went back there or ever, in your opinion, found where you think the actual spot on, you know, might have been. And... (00:37:12)

[Martin Willis] : Hang on just a minute. Can you hold that thought, gentlemen? We have a caller on the line. Caller, go ahead and introduce yourself, if you would, please. (00:37:20)

[SPEAKER_08] : Hi, my name is Peggy. Hi, I have a question. I don't know if maybe I missed it. I don't think I did. But I'm very curious about the women in the car and what they were saying, especially the one that got outside of the car. Wasn't she at some point struck by a beam of light and that's how she got so badly radiated? (00:37:46)

[Colby Landrum] : Well, it was the heat coming off of it. I could feel the heat through the car, you know, but through the windshield. And I'm not exactly sure what she was saying, you know. We were all so frantic, you know. We weren't sure what was going on. I think she was more of an impression. She was more of an impression that she wouldn't know what it was. She wasn't as scared as my grandmother. (00:38:10)

[SPEAKER_08] : Good for her. Another question, when you first saw this object, were the helicopters right there from the very beginning? They were with it the whole way. Yes, ma'am, they were. The whole time, from the moment you first sighted it? (00:38:25)

[Colby Landrum] : Yes, ma'am. That's why, you know, I wanted an impression of the escort. (00:38:28)

[SPEAKER_08] : That's no problem, ma'am. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. You're welcome. Thank you for listening. Thanks for being so strong. It's hard, but you got to do it. (00:38:44)

[Martin Willis] : Thank you, Peggy. (00:38:46)

[SPEAKER_08] : All right, bye-bye. (00:38:47)

[Martin Willis] : Bye-bye. So we're back here, and go ahead, Chris, you had just a quick recap of your question, if you would. (00:38:54)

[SPEAKER_03] : Well, the question came up because Kurt and I actually began to really realize how confused we were over the exact place on that perfectly straight stretch of road where the incident would have occurred because I realize it's, you know, it was dark, no lights, perfectly straight, and suddenly all of this happens. And I believe your grandmother had said that she even didn't go back into that area for weeks afterwards. And then John Schuessler came along, and apparently two months after the fact, went there and made some statements that they found a place where the road had been damaged, and they would knew exactly where they were. (00:39:32)

[SPEAKER_03] : But at the same time, we've heard the stories, and even I believe I've maybe misquoted them, that the road had been chopped up and hauled off. And so the question came up, well, how do we really know exactly, and could anybody have honestly found the exact 100-foot stretch where all of this took place? But did you, after all that time and all these years, have you ever gone back and looked around and feel that you ever were able to locate exactly where this would have taken place? (00:40:02)

[Colby Landrum] : There was only one store on that road, on the north side of the road, 2100, and it was kind of a landmark. So from there to where we're at, I've estimated probably about a mile and a half, two miles. And you could also tell, shortly after, people in the area, I'm not sure who they talked to, but they said they've seen black trucks come in at night, like dump trucks and equipment, and they actually dug that section of the road up and repaved it. (00:40:32)

[SPEAKER_03] : And that was my question in reading what Kurt had, because your mother, or grandmother, rather, told me that exactly, which I began to think, okay, well, when did that occur? Because John wrote that two months, I think he got involved around February 22nd and around the very last part of February, he actually had gone back out there and claimed that they found the road where the damage had been, which would suggest either the road was hauled away after that, or they hadn't found the... John wasn't in the right... It was confusing, if you understand. (00:41:11)

[SPEAKER_03] : I mean, it's like, what happened when? So I just was never quite sure at this point, even with my own understanding of how things happened. If you went back later or sometime later on and really had a good idea of exactly where that would have... Because if the heat was as intense as you say, I can't help but imagine there would have been dead grass, dead trees, shortly after, sometime. Yes. (00:41:36)

[Colby Landrum] : It was a long time before I went down that road, probably. I stayed away from it. Maybe when I go down it today, it brings back old memories. But we actually did a show with another contractor out of California. And we went back and took core samples of where the road was supposed to be pulled up. But Mr. Schussler, he worked for NASA and he was on top of things. I mean, he was a wonderful man. (00:42:08)

[Colby Landrum] : I sometimes wondered, did he know something? Is that why he's helping us out and working for NASA so long? (00:42:15)

[Martin Willis] : Yeah, Colby, I want to ask you something. When I first contacted you, you were a little hesitant to come on the show. Well, I'd say a little more than hesitant. And it's basically painful for you to talk about this. How have you, you know, how have you fared with that whole thing over all these years? It took me a long time to get over it, you know. (00:42:40)

[Colby Landrum] : And I guess after my grandmother passed away, I kind of felt, because she was so adamant about, you know, finding out. I felt like that was, I'm sorry. I felt like that was my, you know, tribute to, you know, what she believed in, to keep fighting and try to find out what actually happened. And it took me a long time until I got older and was able to deal with the fact that I didn't care what anybody said, you know. And I'm still not too excited about talking about it, but that's one thing that I'm trying to work through, the process of being angry and mad. (00:43:19)

[Colby Landrum] : And I'm just trying to fight through, you know, and go on, move on with my life and try to find out what happened, you know. Surely somebody knows, ex-pilot or something, maybe somebody can talk about it now and understand what me and my family went through, you know, have the heart to help us out with some truth. (00:43:38)

[Martin Willis] : Do you feel as though, pardon me, do you feel as though the, if you had to put the blame on something out there, do you think it, you more or less think it might be an experimental government craft? And that's what a lot of people have more or less thought over the years. Do you? There's not a doubt in my mind. Yeah. Do you actually blame the government then for this whole thing? Yes, I sure do. (00:44:02)

[Colby Landrum] : You know, it wouldn't be so bad if they just come out and admit to it and put it behind it, you know what I mean? Instead of leaving people wondering what was the little green man theory, which I don't believe. If I haven't seen it, I don't believe it. What I've seen that night, everything points back to the government and nobody will ever tell me any different. Unless they come up with some other theory and then tell me exactly what happened. (00:44:26)

[SPEAKER_04] : Well, Colby, if you don't mind exchanging some information with me over the show. I came across a researcher and he had a very good suggestion that if you were to sign a privacy waiver and submit a Freedom of Information Act request, that might allow some documents that would otherwise be withheld to be released. Now, that's a long shot, but as far as I know, that hasn't been tried. Would you go along with that? (00:44:50)

[Colby Landrum] : Yes, sir, I sure would. But, you know, like I said, I'm a pipe supervisor in our family now, and I really don't know anything about doing all that. So if I had somebody guiding me, I wouldn't be more than glad to do that. (00:45:06)

[SPEAKER_04] : We'll just need your name on a piece of paper and we'll do the rest. Okay, as long as the paper is well defined and nobody's trying to step on me, you know what I mean? Absolutely. Yeah, you can check it out. Now, we're trying to look out for you, too. I mean, we're curious, but certainly don't want to, you know, to get you hurt in any way. I'm not worried about the government. (00:45:31)

[Colby Landrum] : If they want me, they can come get me. I ain't going down fighting and taking my guns, either. So I'm going down to Texas, I'll talk to them. But yes, I definitely, I really want to do that. (00:45:42)

[SPEAKER_04] : I don't know how much time we've got left. One question I had for you was, I mentioned this briefly earlier. What do you think people have gotten wrong in covering the story over the years? (00:45:53)

[Colby Landrum] : I mean, you know, everybody wants to hear the theory of aliens and all that. And everybody's entitled to believe what they want, whether it happened or where it didn't. But I know what I've seen that night. And like I said, if I haven't seen the green man, I don't believe it. You know, until I see one, then we'll talk. But as of right now, I'm a firm believer in what I've said. The government has got a secret they're keeping from us, just like many other secrets. (00:46:25)

[Colby Landrum] : So until something else is told to me, and behind a government official or something, that's what I'm going to believe till the day I die. (00:46:38)

[SPEAKER_04] : Well, some people aren't as interested in this because aliens aren't involved. And to them, I say that whatever muscles the government's using to keep your case secret, they would keep to use anything else secret. So anything we learn about this would help any other case. So, you know, it would help everyone. (00:46:56)

[Colby Landrum] : I mean, I'm not saying that there wasn't some type of alien form involved. But show me some proof, you know what I mean? And if they show me some proof and there is, then I'll believe it. But still, the government knows whatever happened. And I think as a citizen, and everybody else has a right to know. (00:47:17)

[SPEAKER_04] : I think our time is short. I just I did want to ask you about the legal case. Do you have any memories of that and what you think might have gone wrong? (00:47:28)

[Colby Landrum] : What's that? (00:47:31)

[SPEAKER_04] : Oh, the lawyer, Peter Gerson, was trying to take the case to court. Do you remember anything about that? (00:47:37)

[Colby Landrum] : Yes, I remember looking at the documents. Like I said, I kind of went to recluse mode and didn't... I wouldn't go along with a lot after I got older, you know. Of course, we did. That's incredible. I want to get more in America and all that. But that was, you know, that was just me. I was traveling and wasn't worried about it. But after I got older, I didn't want to have anything to do with it. (00:48:03)

[SPEAKER_04] : I got in touch with a couple of people who had covered the case. And you mentioned, that's incredible. Robert Zimmerman, who was a photographer, he said that he remembered you three very well. It was an incredible story. And he said, I spoke with them over a three-day period and they seemed absolutely credible and honest in their account. And most people that I've been able to reach that ever dealt with you, you know, they felt that the story was true and they can't say what it was. But now I think there were some problems in the investigation by John Schuessler. Some things are inaccurate, but I think anybody that's taken a look at it feels something happened but just can't say what it was. (00:48:42)

[Colby Landrum] : If anybody ever knew my grandmother, she was the most honest person you'll ever meet. I mean, she didn't lie about nothing. You know, I mean, there may have been some things that she didn't quite remember or get it right, you know, but I'm following the flow of it. (00:48:59)

[Martin Willis] : Well, Colby, it's been a real pleasure talking to you today. And I really appreciate the courage you had to come forward and actually, you know, give your side of the story. I appreciate y'all giving me the opportunity to come on. (00:49:15)

[Colby Landrum] : And like I say, anything that y'all can do to help me out to find out the truth, especially for my grandmother, then I'd be more than grateful. (00:49:23)

[Martin Willis] : Yeah. Well, thanks. Also, I want to thank you both, Kurt, and also Chris, for coming on. And I don't think we had too many glitches this show. So for a live show, the first one, I think it went fairly well. Poor Chris, you kept dropping out. Nobody knows that, but Chris... No, I'm kidding. I have so many questions. That's my internet. Your internet cut out about five times as soon as you go away and come back. No kidding. (00:49:48)

[Martin Willis] : What a pain. We got one minute left, Chris, if you have a quick question. (00:49:52)

[SPEAKER_03] : Pick your best one. I don't think I cover them in a dozen times, but I was asking about the effects that, if he recalled, and I'd read something about ridges on the fingernails, whether those showed up within days or weeks, or if he recalls anything about that, about effects on his fingernails. Right. No, sir, I don't recall anything about that. (00:50:13)

[Colby Landrum] : I wish I did. Like I said, I was seven years old at the time, and a lot of it I just blocked out. (00:50:20)

[Martin Willis] : This is it for the show tonight. I want to thank you, all of you, for joining us. And we have Kerry Lloyd Whitehouse. He does the music for the show. He's a fan of the show, and he's in Ireland. And we'll be back next week. Sam Maranto. And it looks like we may have Richard Dolan on next week. Not sure right now, but he gave a thumbs up. So we'll be back same time next week. (00:50:44)

[Martin Willis] : Thanks, guys. Thank you, Colby. Yeah, thanks. Thanks very much. Nice talking to you. So that's it for our live show. Before I go, I do want to say that if anyone has any information at all on the Cash Landrum case, please do contact me, martin at podcastufo.com. I will pass any of the information given to me directly to Kurt Collins, who's doing an ongoing investigation on this. Thank you all for listening. (00:51:14)

[Martin Willis] : And remember, if you want to listen live, check out darkmatterradio.net every Wednesday night at 8pm EST or 1am UTC GMT. (00:51:25)

[SPEAKER_01] : Thank you for listening to our show. And please remember to check out our website, podcastufo.com for the latest blogs and forums. We'll be back next week. Thanks again. And remember, keep your eyes to the sky. (00:51:39)

(2025-09-14)